Starke Sound AD4.320 Review (Multichannel Amplifier)

[antcollinet]

Right. But were the claims of fraud proven in a court of law or just in the court of ASR?

Tom

Innocent until proven guilty is a specific legal requirement for the courts. Outside of court, we (as customers or potential customers) are free to make our mind up based on how we perceive the behaviour of anyone or any company.

If we choose to interpret that as fraud, or incompetence, or just unfortunate consequence - it is entirely up to us. We are also free to buy, or not based on that interpretation.

It is up to any company wanting to win our business, not to behave in a way that causes us to lose trust in them. Failure can result in business failure.

 

[amirm]

Right. But were the claims of fraud proven in a court of law or just in the court of ASR?

Tom

I want to make sure you don't confuse me with the collective statements of the forum. I made no fraud accusations. This is what I said in my conclusions:

I can't recommend the Starke Audio AD4.320. Getting four channels with so much power would have been a good value if they had delivered. But when they don't, there is no reason to buy it.

Which is based on clear facts.

That said, if you sold a product and clearly labeled it with 1 liter of fluid but turns out the bottle was half full, you would get in trouble with authorities for false advertising. And be subject to suits by consumers. So let's not give a pass when it comes to audio. Many owners commented on how they bought this amp because of the stated power ratings.

 

[tomchr]

I did not say you or ASR as an organization is accusing anybody of fraud. But someone did make that accusation and invoke ASR in a comment made on the HomeTheaterHifi review linked to in Post #344. Obviously it is that individual who is responsible for that specific claim. I just think it's bad form and that it puts ASR in a bad light.

I am not suggesting that the manufacturer gets a free pass. I've said that repeatedly. And they already don't in that your measurements show that their product doesn't meet the stated specs. On top the manufacturer handled it poorly when you brought this up with them. The end. I don't see a need to pile further onto that. I would like to think that people can be allowed to recover from their mistakes. Their more recent product does appear to meet the stated specs, so maybe they got the message.

I don't understand where the absolutist thinking comes from. Either the manufacturer gets a free pass or we all clamour until they're out of business. And if I suggest we clamour less and watch how they recover from this, suddenly I'm giving them a free pass? I just don't understand that. I see the world in more nuanced terms than that.

Tom

 

[jhaider]

I am not suggesting that the manufacturer gets a free pass. I've said that repeatedly. And they already don't in that your measurements show that their product doesn't meet the stated specs. On top the manufacturer handled it poorly when you brought this up with them. The end. I don't see a need to pile further onto that. I would like to think that people can be allowed to recover from their mistakes. Their more recent product does appear to meet the stated specs, so maybe they got the message.

Shouldn’t there be a third step though: recall and replacement of the previous product with known defects?

That seems notably missing from any recovery story here.

 

[tomchr]

Or some cash back. Maybe offer an exchange for one of the newer amps that does meet spec. There's any number of ways the company could have handled it better.

I still think the issue is more nuanced than the "free pass"/"must kill company" dichotomy.

Tom

 

[voodooless]

I still think the issue is more nuanced than the "free pass"/"must kill company" dichotomy.

It should have been, but I think that to many, that station was passed a while ago due to the actions and in-actions of the company.

 

[jhaider]

Or some cash back. Maybe offer an exchange for one of the newer amps that does meet spec. There's any number of ways the company could have handled it better.

Change the “could” to “should” and we’re in agreement.

A technical defect in a piece of audio equipment generally is to me far less illuminating than a company’s actions upon its discovery.

 

[tomchr]

A technical defect in a piece of audio equipment generally is to me far less illuminating than a company’s actions upon its discovery.

I absolutely agree.

Tom

 

[amirm]

I just think it's bad form and that it puts ASR in a bad light.

What do you mean? There should never be an outrage from membership about anything? And what do you expect me to do? Delete their posts?

 

[tomchr]

Good Lord. I'm not expecting you to do anything. I was making an observation and expressing my opinion. That is all.

You can be as outraged as you want. You can choose to fuel whatever outrage is already there if you so desire. It is all up to you.

Tom

 

[audio_lover]

Or some cash back.

They did exactly that when I contacted them, no issues whatsoever in dealing with them.

 

[tomchr]

That's fantastic! Good to hear that they came around.

So why do we need to be outraged again? I'm confused...

Tom

 

[amirm]

That's fantastic! Good to hear that they came around.

So why do we need to be outraged again? I'm confused...

Tom

It was the outrage that forced them into action.

 

[tomchr]

How do you know? Also, if the company has come to their senses is the outrage still needed?

Tom

 

[amirm]

How do you know? Also, if the company has come to their senses is the outrage still needed?

Tom

Because their initial stance was to say I didn't know what I was doing. Only after the news and outrage traveled far and wide did they offer money back guarantee.

There is no evidence the company has come to its senses. No credible explanation of their conduct has ever been presented. They are counting on folks forgetting.

 

[nstzya]

Tom,

Again... and I have politely suggested it a few times... until you have read through (or lived through) the entire several hundred posts - Part one AND Part two - you can't understand how this case was so particularly egregious and inflammatory. The response WAS nuanced and only gradually became polarized by the company's response - or lack thereof. First, there were multiple attempts to contact the company to allow them to participate in a discussion. All were rebuffed. There was never a public announcement or a formal recall - it was only through word of mouth and this site that anyone ever learned they could get a refund. There are likely many owners who still have no idea. Instead the company continued to promote and continued sales. All while providing multiple explanations, promises to submit to independent testing, and failed to this date to ever accept responsibility or provide a cogent explanation.

And then we learned that the company has a history of releasing other products in foreign markets with similar exaggerated claims and unscrupulous behavior and were forced to halt such claims/sales by government intervention.

In my opinion, it is exactly the type of company deserving of disdain and holding their feet to fire.

 

[ColonelJoy]

I've owned nearly a dozen different amplifiers, including the Benchmark (my least fav), Hegel H590 (best on maggies), Van Alstine, Crowne, Rogue 100, Parasound, PS Audio etc. driving either Maggie 1.7s or Vandersteen 2Ce from a Holo Audio digital source. The Starke Ad4.320 has not just been my favorite amp for the money (it's the cheapest I've owned), it's simply provides the most complete musical experience to my ears that I've heard thus far driving Vandersteens. If anybody wants to come to Milwaukee and and jam out, I'm more than happy to show off my poorly measuring amp.

I am still experimenting of course. I'm moving to Asia in a few years and I want to learn everything I can about my preferences so when I'm in Thailand I just get a system and forget about fooling around with audio so much (probably fooling myself). I'm considering bringing in two Fiera4s that I would run bridged or the Schiit Tyr monos.

matt

 

[Mrdead]

Fair enough, Tom. I did not realize the gain of 21.5 is for the balanced (XLR) input (forgiveable given the spotty specifications table).

In fact, the measurements by Soundstage seem to be quite a bit more consistent with the claimed specifications this go round - a positive outcome.

I’d be interested in any expert analysis or comment on the measurements.

Hey what's up guys, I currently have this unit in for review and I had a friend of mine measure it using a Dscope Series 3 which obviously isn't as luxury as some of the other review companies out there but at 8 ohms the unit hit its mark at 1thd at 140 watts. Not bad at all. We had a nice listening session and it performed really nicely. I'm not a huge fan boy for Class D amps but this one is a good unit. I read all about the AD4 debacle and it seems they took care of people for, what I assume was a bad batch. So all good here. Looking forward to sharing the full review soon.

 

[Mrdead]

Tom,

Again... and I have politely suggested it a few times... until you have read through (or lived through) the entire several hundred posts - Part one AND Part two - you can't understand how this case was so particularly egregious and inflammatory. The response WAS nuanced and only gradually became polarized by the company's response - or lack thereof. First, there were multiple attempts to contact the company to allow them to participate in a discussion. All were rebuffed. There was never a public announcement or a formal recall - it was only through word of mouth and this site that anyone ever learned they could get a refund. There are likely many owners who still have no idea. Instead the company continued to promote and continued sales. All while providing multiple explanations, promises to submit to independent testing, and failed to this date to ever accept responsibility or provide a cogent explanation.

And then we learned that the company has a history of releasing other products in foreign markets with similar exaggerated claims and unscrupulous behavior and were forced to halt such claims/sales by government intervention.

In my opinion, it is exactly the type of company deserving of disdain and holding their feet to fire.

Man, who hurt you.

Rich, did you mean to write, “power specifications do NOT indicate frequency range…”? I have to agree with you about cherry picking. It would seem that they continue to have chosen to not abide by FCC regulations (or convention) and that these power ratings once again most likely represent purposeful exaggerations.

Also low gain/sensitivity remains - no increases there. So if you want to drive directly (without preamp) from DAC/Streamer/Disc players (and some AVR’s) you’ll not even get anywhere close to the rated (would “claimed” be a better adjective?) power.

The frequency response are on the website. Not sure where you guys are looking lol

 

[amirm]

The frequency response are on the website. Not sure where you guys are looking lol

He said the *power ratings* don't include the frequency at which they were tested. Amplifier power frequently goes down at the extremes of frequency range. What you listed is just frequency response which has nothing to do with this objection. So don't LOL stuff if you can't understand the argument.