MAB
Major Contributor
I sure hope so.I’m wondering if this particular pair of speakers would have measured as designed without the flaws would we know who Nuyes is?
I sure hope so.I’m wondering if this particular pair of speakers would have measured as designed without the flaws would we know who Nuyes is?
I apologize for the lack of timeline and precise content organization of the content of the thread.So still no particular info on the tightening sequence/torque spec for the driver mounting? So many areas where the thread needs some cleanup/focusing overall, tho.
Well stated John.With respect, that is no different to the classic response from service agents "Oh this is the first problem we've ever had with X product. (yes, it's a standard BS line)"
The absolute vast majority of people who buy HiFi don't have the means, the knowledge, or the interest in measuring their gear. And neither should they. They base their decisions and place their trust in the manufacturer's statements and specifications.
Where products do not live up to their hype/specs and people have paid a ton of money for them, the situation deserves to be called out. Amir is way to kind IMO with a lot of gear where it clearly doesn't measure up, but he's likely got bigger/more fish to fry.
This Sointuva is not a disaster, but there are clearly facets of the product which don't live up to what was promised. I can see why the binding post issue occurred. Alan would have standard test bananas and would test every speaker. His plugs happened to be solid- he likely never used a hollow 4mm plug or a spade, so the problem with air pouring out was never discovered.
Danny at GR Research would have approved, because they are actually:
View attachment 215443
The rest of it, leaky tweeter-waveguide and resonance issues are probably only obvious due to the very low THD of the entire speaker. In a normal speaker, they would be swamped with other non-linearities. He made a speaker so clean, it highlighted stuff you'd never know about.
But, as usual, it was the dismissive, ducking and weaving and accusations of reviewer incompetence by March, that only served to make it worse. The doubling down, instead of stepping back and acknowledging someone's valid observations and points.
I can not agree with you more Alan has no evidence to his claim also as he is a maker and president of manufacturer, he should take responsibility of suggesting the data and support to the consumer when problems happen but it hasn't been done....I apologize for the lack of timeline and precise content organization of the content of the thread.
Because of the sheer volume to be published in the post, and the lengthy our journey to analysis and repair by Sointuva WG.
Apart from that, let's talk about bolts.
Alan's claims about the bolt are 'completely' wrong.
1.Alan argued that distortion could be improved or increased by bolt torque.
2. He also responded to the owner's inquiry about leaking binding posts, saying, "Take it apart and seal it yourself." answered.
3. If the torque value recommended by the manufacturer is standardized and this is the manufacturer's know-how, he must disclose it to the customer exactly.
But that's impossible.
Totally wrong.
1.Because the insert nut structure of this speaker is mostly made of rubber, and the metal is about 3mm (0.11inch) at the end.
The bolt that goes into the insert nut rotates a few turns at the beginning and meets the metal parts, then the more tightened, the more the rubber is compressed and the speaker unit is fixed.
Alan, can you really provide an exact manufacturer recommendation for this (torque)?
If the manufacturer's recommended torque values actually exist, you are obligated to provide the exact torque values while demanding the seal to the customer.
2. Let's talk on the premise that there is a manufacturer's recommended value (if Alan's argument is correct).
If so, at least the fastening strength of each bolt should have been the same or similar.
Alan's claims about the bolt are 'completely' wrong.
1.Alan argued that distortion could be improved or increased by bolt torque.
I do think this is on Alan's side, actually most of the potential customers couldn't care less about who can measure or mod/fix this speaker, but hope March can make the connector sealing and/or driver mounting/whatever causing all those leaks in the problematic sample in this post, I personally believe the screws/sealing could be a side effect of dilvery damage, you know how the deliver guys usually do to these heavy boxesI hope we can come up with a solution as a result of the essential mechanical and physical problem analysis, not personal mental analysis of each other.
Let's Keep testing and mkae more theoretical proposals and verifications.
In fact, OP is testing just that at this very moment. He is soon to reveal the results. Just wait and see.The thing that I understand so far and worries me as purifi drivers are very popular is that apart from the minor flaws the distortion at 380Hz is not yet a solved matter.
So,is it an inherent flaw of the driver or of the speaker?Does anyone knows for sure?
Nice measurements! Hope this will bring us closer to the solution.Finally, something nice has arrived.
@SDC , thank you very much.
The Purifi X series driver has a 3rd harmonic distortion peak of 380hz, and unlike the nonlinear distortion of general motors, it has a property that it does not rise in proportion to the output.
And based on this, Alan makes the following excuses for the harmonic distortion of the Sointuva WG I reviewed.
"It was caused by the reviewer's arbitrarily overtightening the bolts."
I explain to you again.
I have measured and reviewed many speakers so far.
(About 80 or more.)
But I've never disassembled anyone else's speakers except for the Sointuva WG.
Do I look rude and crazy?
Or, do I look like a philanthropist who repairs everyone's speakers for free?
Until the first week of May 2022, the Sointuva WG was just 'one review speaker' to me.
However, something was noticed (THD) by members who subscribed to my review, and the owner of this speakers immediately reported it to Alan.
But Alan blamed the reviewer from the start.
Still, I persevered.
Because I understand that I'm in an unknown country in Asia, it is difficult to trust the data measured by anonymous reviewers...
'At least' "If there is a deviation when measured under the same conditions under the same conditions, wouldn't you be able to trust us?"
So I asked for Sample B, and the owner was happy to send me the rest of the speakers.
But again, Alan's attitude didn't change despite showing Sample A/B comparison results.
We all know.
A simple solution to this problem.
Alan should have been customer-friendly from the start.
Even if the reviewers don't believe it, the equipment and data should be.
But now I know that all these words are useless.
It's simple.
Let's prove it.
View attachment 215482
These are 12 mm (0.47 inch) solid aluminum baffles, each precision cut by CNC.
View attachment 215483View attachment 215484
I used 75g/m2 density paper, as squeezing the baffle and unit as-is and the paint on the front of the unit could peel off.
View attachment 215485View attachment 215486
It compresses very strongly.
The wooden block you see over there is a 'speaker stand' that I made myself for Arendal's 1961 Tower speaker.
So it's quite heavy, thanks to the internal bulkhead with multiple layers of bracing.
Also, I was afraid that there would be various criticisms of the experimental environment, so I tightened the clamps as hard as I could.
View attachment 215487
This is the first measurement point.
Nearfield measurement of the unit diaphragm.
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View attachment 215490
This is the second measurement point.
between the magnet and the frame.
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I still don't see 'something' at 380hz.
So, again, I'll try to find out what voltage the problem is at.
View attachment 215493View attachment 215494
Diaphragm nearfield measurement.
Second harmonic distortion is perfectly normal.
However, you can see that the 3rd harmonic distortion suddenly decreases around 2.83V.
I wondered if this had something to do with the resonance Purifi was talking about.
Next.
View attachment 215495View attachment 215496
between the magnet and the frame.
View attachment 215496
bingo!
At the junction of magnet and frame
Third harmonic distortion shows strange symptoms.
View attachment 215497
It rises proportionally up to a certain voltage and then peaks.
That's 3.65V.
I resumed the measurement with 3.65V.
View attachment 215498View attachment 215499
Diaphragm nearfield measurement.
View attachment 215500View attachment 215501
between the magnet and the frame.
1. When measuring THD for each voltage of 380hz using the DIS module, an abnormality of the 3rd harmonic distortion was found between the magnet and the frame.
This backs up the facts about the Purifi driver.
2.This shows the 3rd harmonic distortion peaks, but I couldn't find the 2nd harmonic distortion peaks near 380hz anywhere on the diaphragm or frame.
3. When measuring between the frame and the magnet, a peak of 3rd harmonic distortion was found at about 450hz (3.65V), but this is about -59dB at the maximum.
4. Distortion, which was the core of the problem raised in the thread's original post, is centered around 400hz, and the second harmonic distortion takes the peak first.
Back to the point,
To some of the issues presented by reviewers and customers, Alan replied, "This is clearly a driver-specific characteristic of Purifi and is found in all Purifi speakers."
Is that true?
Maybe not really solving the problem, from my layman eyes the only thing I was disappointed is that the otherwise great speaker designer said there wasn't any issue, while one of the problematic speaker measured by OP exhibit the same thing to a more severe degreeIm afraid not, the experiment is incorrect. @Nuyes does not have knowledge of vibration measurement.
You are right.Im afraid not, the experiment is incorrect. @Nuyes does not have knowledge of vibration measurement.
Because He is not measuring vibration perhaps? If you know well about measurements then please share your knowledge before just put down OP. I believe acoustic measurements too helps us in this situation to prove the point...Im afraid not, the experiment is incorrect. @Nuyes does not have knowledge of vibration measurement.