ROOSKIE
Major Contributor
Howdy. You might want to take distortion measurements of the driver with various torques applied.
That would be very interesting.
That would be very interesting.
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The REAL Problem of March Audio's Sointuva WG (Review, Measurements and Reinforcements with Klippel device)
- Thread starter Nuyes
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DualTriode
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Hello,
With this long winded "Who Shot Jack" winding down is there a thread where Purifi drivers are done right?
I have 2 Purifi drivers being delivered in a couple of days. They are looking for a job in a couple of mini 2-ways on my bench.
@amirm is putting out videos with sound clips I want to critically listen to.
Thanks DT
ROOSKIE
Major Contributor
No, apparently not yet.
Plan for the passive radiators or a nightmare chore getting the small box tuned low using a large enough port diameter to mitigate chuffing and overloading.
You could go also sealed and boost with DSP but you will lose SPL capability and HD,IMD will be higher sooner.
DualTriode
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Hello,
The initial plan is to go sealed with a F3 ~75Hz and a sub tucked under the bench.
Thanks DT
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IMO, this is a case where a major assembly error has caused a deficit of trust between the OP and March. While the speaker shouldn't of shipped with the terminal leakage it's not very clear to me how much the other items brought forward and remediated really contributed to the distortion profile of the assembled speaker. After a few reads it became less clear than how my mind initially constructed the narrative.
I imagine the OP probably feels very frustrated with March. But I think the language in the post is pretty inflammatory, and for that reason shouldn't of been promoted to the home page. The response to dogpile March almost certainly forces them into a corner. And the conspiratorial thinking and digs at Erin are unfounded and needless.
This speaker uses really expensive esoteric drivers and cabinetry at very slim markup to deliver world class design as its selling proposition. It remarkably seems to have mostly achieved that but might be let down by inconsistent assembly and poor shipping packaging. IMHO no surprises.
I imagine the OP probably feels very frustrated with March. But I think the language in the post is pretty inflammatory, and for that reason shouldn't of been promoted to the home page. The response to dogpile March almost certainly forces them into a corner. And the conspiratorial thinking and digs at Erin are unfounded and needless.
This speaker uses really expensive esoteric drivers and cabinetry at very slim markup to deliver world class design as its selling proposition. It remarkably seems to have mostly achieved that but might be let down by inconsistent assembly and poor shipping packaging. IMHO no surprises.
Uuuh, the only solution is getting it fully fixed. You pay for a certain performance level, and if I'm not getting that paying less won't fix it. If I wanted to pay less I would have bought something else. Monetary compensation is a good solution for scratches, bumps and other visual issues, not for performance related ones.
Nango
Major Contributor
Never buy DIY or artisan and you are safe. Only industrial design.
So don't buy ascend acoustics, selah audio, Salk sound or philharmonic audio?
Newman
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...and maybe there are natural consequences of so doing...
If safety is your number one priority, yes?
Some claim to kill giants...
If one decides to buy expensive speakers made from SOTA drivers and expect really low measurable distortion in both speakers of pair, i'd not call his disappointment "over emphasing minor issues".
One could argue that you likely get better quality for your money. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss some of these companies. To judge all small manufacturers by the actions of one small manufacturer (with a history of defensiveness) is very closed minded.
For example, Dave at ascend took the feedback from the Luna monitors (worst measuring of his speakers) and turned around and bought an NFS. Their track record for quality and support is impeccable, and they've been around for a long long time now.
I'm a bit late to the party, just wanted to say thanks to @Nuyes and the rest of the South Korea posse for the amazing work.
I always wanted to like March Audio's products as I am all for independent innovators and tinkerers, but the quality issues for a bookshelf speakers at this kind of price do worry me. My most expensive floor standers I ever bought were £1000, and I would have been very upset if at this price level there were any issues.
I always wanted to like March Audio's products as I am all for independent innovators and tinkerers, but the quality issues for a bookshelf speakers at this kind of price do worry me. My most expensive floor standers I ever bought were £1000, and I would have been very upset if at this price level there were any issues.
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restorer-john
Grand Contributor
Yes, I saw that. My mistake assuming they would be like 99% of all other 4mm banana binding posts. I have some socket-only bananas which are hollow. I can see how it was overlooked by March, especially if he was using solid 4mm plugs. But someone using spades would have heard the leakage noise for sure!
Maybe, and I understand that the OP has difficulty in english so maybe he can answer clearly, but in the support email (not the later justification), Alan March ask a simple question: "However, can I ask if the fixing bolts where tighten?" we don't see a clear response to that and again, beside the OP post said that well he noticed that screw torque was uneven "On his perspective, at disassembly" but goes on with "I decided to ignore Alan March response. Sounds to me as a way to partly avoid the question. Maybe @Nuyes can clarify, but again there is truth and great value to the OP's investigation, I do think that Ignoring support attempt and then expressing disappointment is not fully fair. At least you answer, especially if you are going to use the email communications in your review to voice your disappointment.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #258
This is my reply to his mail.
"First the binding post air leak"
1. Leaks from binding posts were found on both samples I received.
2. The binding post of the speaker was sealed by me, the reviewer, 'not your customer, Mr. Jung'.
"His Klippel measurements"
1. The measured acoustic axis position is specified in the data and has nothing to do with this issue.
2. And I followed the acoustic axis (Tweeter) recommended by you in all measurements after the first session.
"Distortion measurements"
1. I have not touched the assembly of this speaker until the moment of measurement and subsequent review and repackaging of this speaker to return to Mr. Jung.
2.Alan You need to admit to being wrong about this part.
"The passive radiator is not faulty"
1. I never concluded that the passive radiator was the culprit, and the review shows that it was part of the analysis process.
"It betrays a complete lack of understanding of the subject of the vibration of structures."
1. You are right. I have no knowledge of structures and vibrations, and I can't be sure about this.
2. What I could do without related knowledge was to suspect other causes and conduct comparative measurements, and since it actually showed improved results (the resonance of 380hz you mentioned disappeared itself. If this is the purify driver's fault, can the resonance band and strength of the driver structure change with the addition of an internal sound absorbing material?)
"Please note again that the speaker he did not dismantle showed no problems."
1.Again, no tampering was done to the speaker until we initially sent you a bunch of data and asked for advice, including measurements for review.
"Tweeter and Well Nut Air Leaks Neither the tweeter or rubber well nuts leak air. This is easily demonstrated by depressing the woofer."
1. This is clearly your mistake.
We have a video that confirms that the woofer is restored slowly and quickly than expected after the woofer pops out of the passive radiator without any manipulation applied.
"Internal Wiring"
1. You have already lowered the credibility of March Audio's assembly quality to the ground by failing to assemble the insert nut of one speaker.
2. What I checked were wires that moved freely inside, and even if this didn't actually cause a problem... I arranged additional wiring just in case.
Please let me know if this can cause performance issues with your speakers.
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OP
- Thread Starter
- #259
And there's something I want everyone to know, including Alan.
I have never disassembled or repaired a speaker arbitrarily while conducting a speaker performance measurement and review.
However, in the case of the Sointuva WG, the speaker's owner was disappointed with the data and was only asked to re-measure,find out and repair the speaker.
And things wouldn't have gotten this far if Alan had been clear on the recall and review of these speakers from the start.
'We' asked Alan for advice and support through data measured in several ways (including AB comparison of samples) before we started disassembling the speaker, but he continued to blame the reviewers for their unprofessional knowledge and qualifications.
In addition to the obvious error that appears in the AB test, the buyer gave up the manufacturer's support and asked me to review and repair it because of Alan's inability to take any active action or support.
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