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KEF LS60 Wireless Just Announced

Daka

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TheBatsEar

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Cons: they cost money
Pros: they support Roon

That seems like a balanced assessment to me, considering that they are in fact not Roon certified.
 

AlexanderM

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Just found this, $10k pair in Canada.

 

Emlin

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Just found this, $10k pair in Canada.

Not in stock. Not that I'm in Canada anyway.
 

TomJ

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That’s can be this speakers best feature, the analog inputs :) it means when all apps and services have failed it can still be used as just a speaker.
That's not how this speaker works. Its analog inputs are routed internally to an ADC whose digital outputs are processed by the DSP and then converted back to analog by an internal DAC [edit: whose outputs are filtered and] with filtered outputs that are routed to the three different driver amps.

In the event that "all apps and services have failed", the 70 lb speaker goes back to KEF who swaps out the FRU (field replaceable unit) and ships the repaired speaker back to you or your dealer. Your failed FRU is eventually repaired for use in a different customer's refurbished product. Your warranty replacement time is subject to KEF FRU inventory, which in turn depends on their procurement of chips, PCBs etc which may be in short supply. Owners of other DSP active speakers including D&D and Kii Three have reported long warranty repair times on the scale of many months.

I have the greatest respect for the superb engineering that's gone into LS60 development. We do need to have realistic expectations however for the reliability of this product given its complexity. Failure rates have been reportedly been high for the active LS50 models.
 
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bloomdido

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That's not how this speaker works. Its analog inputs are routed internally to an ADC whose digital outputs are processed by the DSP and then converted back to analog by an internal DAC whose outputs are filtered and routed to the three different driver amps.
No, the crossover filtering is done in digital domain and then converted to analog signals for three amps by a 3-way DAC.
In the event that "all apps and services have failed", the 70 lb speaker goes back to KEF who swaps out the FRU (field replaceable unit) and ships the repaired speaker back to you or your dealer. Your failed FRU is eventually repaired for use in a different customer's refurbished product.
No, when apps and services have failed, you still have an active speaker with analog RCA inputs and digital active crossover.
 

EdW

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That's not how this speaker works. Its analog inputs are routed internally to an ADC whose digital outputs are processed by the DSP and then converted back to analog by an internal DAC whose outputs are filtered and routed to the three different driver amps. As the electronics have no external heat sinks, they rely on chimney airflow for cooling, so the DSP probably operates at 48kHz like NAD or miniDSP Flex, or perhaps at 96kHz like miniDSP SHD (we don't know which). That requires upsampling or downsampling of digital inputs as required, so the specs for the different digital input bandwidths need to be interpreted accordingly.

In the event that "all apps and services have failed", the 70 lb speaker goes back to KEF who swaps out the FRU (field replaceable unit) and ships the repaired speaker back to you or your dealer. Your failed FRU is eventually repaired for use in a different customer's refurbished product. Your warranty replacement time is subject to KEF FRU inventory, which in turn depends on their procurement of chips, PCBs etc which may be in short supply. Owners of other DSP active speakers including D&D and Kii Three have reported long warranty repair times on the scale of many months.

I have the greatest respect for the superb engineering that's gone into LS60 development. We do need to have realistic expectations however for the reliability of this product given its complexity. Failure rates have been reportedly been high for the active LS50 models.
Active speakers at this price point need Bryston type reliability and serviceability for the electronics since most customers have the reasonable expectation that their speakers will last a long time. To be fair I do not know of any manufacturers of active speakers which do offer a robust extended warranty. This is the reason I’m staying with a separate dac/amp/speaker arrangement.
 

Vacceo

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Active speakers at this price point need Bryston type reliability and serviceability for the electronics since most customers have the reasonable expectation that their speakers will last a long time. To be fair I do not know of any manufacturers of active speakers which do offer a robust extended warranty. This is the reason I’m staying with a separate dac/amp/speaker arrangement.
Using a multichannel system, I'm tending towards the same eventual upgrade.

I think I'll keep using Kef as I have for the last two decades, however, I think it is a good idea to wait a bit to see what they'll be releasing in the near future.
 

EdW

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Using a multichannel system, I'm tending towards the same eventual upgrade.

I think I'll keep using Kef as I have for the last two decades, however, I think it is a good idea to wait a bit to see what they'll be releasing in the near future.
At most price points KEF do offer speakers which are some of the best
 

AdamG

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Failure rates have been reportedly been high for the active LS50 models.
Please provide data and references that support this statement. Be interested in reading.
In the event that "all apps and services have failed", the 70 lb speaker goes back to KEF who swaps out the FRU (field replaceable unit) and ships the repaired speaker back to you or your dealer. Your failed FRU is eventually repaired for use in a different customer's refurbished product. Your warranty replacement time is subject to KEF FRU inventory, which in turn depends on their procurement of chips, PCBs etc which may be in short supply. Owners of other DSP active speakers including D&D and Kii Three have reported long warranty repair times on the scale of many months.
Do you know this for a fact, or is this your working theory? If the former, again please provide links to supporting data.?
 

TomJ

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No, the crossover filtering is done in digital domain and then converted to analog signals
Of course... "whose outputs are filtered" meant "with filtered outputs", now edited for clarity.
No, when apps and services have failed, you still have an active speaker with analog RCA inputs...
... on the primary speaker. Digital inputs only on the secondary speaker, RJ45 or wireless (owner's manual p 97).
it means when all apps and services have failed it can still be used as just a speaker.
Did I misunderstand what this means? (If so, sorry @Mnyb) Its EQ options, FIR filters and digital crossover are services implemented in the DSP, so I understood this to mean "in the event of failed electronics (eg blown SMPS) the speakers can still be used in passive mode". That would not be possible.

cheers, Tom
 
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ChrisHeinonen

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Chiming in that when I was writing about TVs for over a decade, trying to determine reliability was nearly impossible. Certain brands would have more reports of failures that I saw, but those brands also sold more than the other brands. And they were more often bought from a warehouse or online and not from a local dealer, so you might have a harder time getting it repaired or fixed than other brands which would lead you to be more likely to complain online about it. The best reference we had was an annual Consumer Reports survey of brand reliability from their readers, but the statistical deviation on that was +/- 4% almost I believe, so virtually every company was statistically the same in most cases.

So yes, I'm sure people are aware of cases where the LS50W has failed, and people for whom it has failed are probably very vocal about it, but it's also going to be nearly impossible to find reliable data on if the speaker has an issue unless you actually work for KEF and have access to that data.
 

KMO

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Did I misunderstand what this means?
He meant the bits that might become obsolete and non-functional due to support being dropped, such as the control apps and support for streaming services, or something newfangled like WiSa that might not have long-term support in future devices.

When all that's stopped working, you still have a functioning pair of active speakers using the evergreen analogue inputs. No-one was talking about reliability, only format obsolescence. (WiSa discussion was what prompted that comment).
 

Kal Rubinson

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Chiming in that when I was writing about TVs for over a decade, trying to determine reliability was nearly impossible. Certain brands would have more reports of failures that I saw, but those brands also sold more than the other brands. And they were more often bought from a warehouse or online and not from a local dealer, so you might have a harder time getting it repaired or fixed than other brands which would lead you to be more likely to complain online about it. The best reference we had was an annual Consumer Reports survey of brand reliability from their readers, but the statistical deviation on that was +/- 4% almost I believe, so virtually every company was statistically the same in most cases.

So yes, I'm sure people are aware of cases where the LS50W has failed, and people for whom it has failed are probably very vocal about it, but it's also going to be nearly impossible to find reliable data on if the speaker has an issue unless you actually work for KEF and have access to that data.
Right. Having faced this issue myself (in terms of deciding on what to purchase), I have discounted the issue of how long/difficult it may be for an active/DSP-based speaker to be repaired. I only consider the issue that, in the event of a failure, the entire speaker (or pair) is out of commission for the duration, regardless of whether it needs to be shipped out or just sits dormant while it waits for an organ transplant.

For normal people, this is an inconvenience no matter how long it takes. For people like us for whom the audio or HT system is an important part of our lives, a short interruption is painful and a long one intolerable. Just sayin'.............

EDIT: I am not indicting KEF or Kii or D&D or any company in particular nor am I rejecting networking and wireless. It is a general concern due to the inclusion of multiple functional devices in a single cabinet such that the failure of any one leaves the rest not functional pending repair. Were this not my personal concern, I'd have made the move a few years back.
 
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Kal Rubinson

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When all that's stopped working, you still have a functioning pair of active speakers using the evergreen analogue inputs.
No, you do not. Not if the crossover is in DSP.
 
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