• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

KEF LS60 Wireless Just Announced

Tangband

Major Contributor
Joined
Sep 3, 2019
Messages
2,994
Likes
2,795
Location
Sweden
For most music , I would say its good enough to cover a flat inroom curve from 39 Hz -20000 Hz .
Exeptions are 32 feet pipe-organs , Grand piano, some electronic music and sound effects.:)

Some bass players downtune their bass to Eb on records = 39 Hz.
 
Last edited:

Vacceo

Major Contributor
Joined
Mar 9, 2022
Messages
2,659
Likes
2,808
Let's day that if I cut off everything below 80hz, Prodigy would not be Prodigy nor Cannibal Corpse would be Cannibal Corpse.
 

Inner Space

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
May 18, 2020
Messages
1,285
Likes
2,938
Some bass players downtune their bass to Eb on records = 39 Hz.
True, and some to drop-D, which is another semitone lower. But - virtually no bass guitar is ever recorded without HPF about an octave higher, so what we hear is harmonics, implying the fundamental. The idea is to leave room for the kick drum, which sounds as a nonspecific thump in the bottom octave, and again is mostly defined by harmonics, going as high as 1k. It's done that way because engineers know most domestic systems have no pitch or level capability low down.

I'm sure ASR people are different, but most folks think 100Hz is super-low bass.
 

Tangband

Major Contributor
Joined
Sep 3, 2019
Messages
2,994
Likes
2,795
Location
Sweden
Even better is 27.5 Hz as it the lowest frequency on a piano.
In practice when playing , and in most real music, you rarely go any lower than C1 = 32,7 Hz .
( Im a pianist )
 
Last edited:

tktran303

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 27, 2019
Messages
684
Likes
1,190
I’m a pianist too.

Take an FFT of the lowest note on the piano and see how much content there actually is at 27.5 and you’ll see why the bottom octave is totally over-rated.

DD283AE5-145E-4D17-B0C2-2017EF7AEDBC.png


In fact, most concert level subwoofers (you know the one with a whole stack of 2-man lift type subwoofers that are as big as a refrigerator) only go to 40Hz…


The biggest baddest arrayable ones go to 30Hz

C485FEC9-7724-40AA-9EAE-FF62759BF928.jpeg


20Hz is a waste of flapping wind

It’s psychoacoustics, and why most people are completely happy with their $100 bluetooth speaker that goes down to 60Hz…
 
Last edited:

Axo1989

Major Contributor
Joined
Jan 9, 2022
Messages
2,877
Likes
2,913
Location
Sydney
For most music , I would say its good enough to cover a flat inroom curve from 39 Hz -20000 Hz .
Exeptions are 32 feet pipe-organs , Grand piano, some electronic music and sound effects.:)

Some bass players downtune their bass to Eb on records = 39 Hz.
Hmmm, I thought that, when I had speakers that just covered that range. Except we have synth bass and percussion used widely on modern production. So when I bought better speakers, I realised I'd been missing stuff, the actual bass line of a fair few tracks, and the ambient foundation of many others.

It'll depend a bit on your taste of course, but I was playing Kelsey Lu today so here's a quick screenshot of Foreign Car—the crosshairs are 100 dB and 39 Hz, the y-axis in 10 dB increments and the x-axis running up to just shy of 200 Hz. Do I want to throw away everything on the left of the line?

*it's pop, so not "real music" but they're classically-trained (cello/piano/violin) so a "real musician" right?

Screen Shot 2022-05-14 at 8.05.52 pm.png

Anyway, the answer is no. Obviously, KEF agree.
 
Last edited:

killdozzer

Major Contributor
Joined
Aug 2, 2020
Messages
1,615
Likes
1,631
Location
Zagreb
What I would like to see is a truly wireless active floorstanding version i.e. one with a rechargeable battery back in the bottom end of the cabinet. This would give maximum freedom for placement. I could have one set of batteries on charger while the other set would be on speakers. The less wires and power chords, the better imho.
For me it's anything but battery.
 
Last edited:

Daka

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2021
Messages
319
Likes
212
There are plenty of customers who appreciate the R line, myself included where we want traditional passive speaker set that isn't budget nor TOTL. And personally I'm not a fan of the looks of the LS60. I like the LS50 but the shape just looks very odd carried over into a tower format.

Also everybody on here automatically equates wider dispersion = better which is not always the case and certainly a matter of taste as there are trade offs here, especially in a surround speaker setup. I really think that is where the R series shines, in a mixed-use music/HT living room setup. Even though they are boxy they still have a "lifestyle" look to them with the sleek design of the front baffle and woofers.
KEFs have wider dispersion than many other speakers and that plays well in surround speaker setup. So I would be inclined to say this is actually advantage. I think what you’re trying to say is imaging precision, to correctly and precisely place sounds. KEF uni-Q design is main driver behind this - LS60 are not losing this. I’m expecting them to be per usual analytical but with soundstage wider, more enveloping sound - which should make them even better in HT setup .
 

Vacceo

Major Contributor
Joined
Mar 9, 2022
Messages
2,659
Likes
2,808
Speaking of bass, the LS60 is meant to be an all-in-one. The earc HDMI assumes it will be used for film and tv audio, and in that, the lower extension is a good idea for sound effects.

In summary, I'm curious to listen to Doom Eternal playing on them. :D
 

abdo123

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 15, 2020
Messages
7,444
Likes
7,954
Location
Brussels, Belgium
Musical content in the lowest octave is not common, but when it's done well it can be an amazing experience. I don't see the usefulness in this discussion.

 

KMO

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Aug 9, 2021
Messages
629
Likes
903
Speaking of bass, the LS60 is meant to be an all-in-one.
What does that mean? It's a full-range tower speaker, that operates way beyond its diminutive size, but it's clearly not a substitute for a real subwoofer or two, any more than a Reference 5 is.

Given the crossover functionality and subwoofer out, it will actually give you better support for subwoofers than most 2-channel passive solutions. KEF is acknowledging the benefits of adding subwoofers more than most speaker manufacturers there.

But as for the eARC, that connection method is going to be far from ideal for actual home cinema. It can only handle a 2-channel PCM downmix, which will not have the LFE. If you wanted to use these as L+R in a real home cinema setup, it would be better to connect the analogue pre-outs from a receiver.
 

Vacceo

Major Contributor
Joined
Mar 9, 2022
Messages
2,659
Likes
2,808
Call it a high end alternative to a soundbar.

And yes, I agree there is no substitute for a subwoofer, particularly if you want to watch film or play games.

I use a 7.1 and I have built a 7.2.4 in the past. What you get out of an AVR/processor+amp is far from what the LS60, even with subwoofers, can do. But not everyone has the room, willingness to tinker, time...
 

F1308

Major Contributor
Joined
May 24, 2020
Messages
1,058
Likes
910
For most music , I would say its good enough to cover a flat inroom curve from 39 Hz -20000 Hz .
Exeptions are 32 feet pipe-organs , Grand piano, some electronic music and sound effects.:)

Some bass players downtune their bass to Eb on records = 39 Hz.
A procedure easily made on MIDI keyboard synthesizers: using equal temperament and then tuning A4 @ 431.5 Hz will set D1 @ 36 Hz.
Then a keyboard using velocity (play just D1 if velocity 1-100 and D0&D1 if velocity 101-127) could very well sound D0 @ 18 Hz without having to press any key below D1.
 

KMO

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Aug 9, 2021
Messages
629
Likes
903
Call it a high end alternative to a soundbar.
More like a high-end alternative to plugging a couple of desktop PC speakers into your TV, I'd say - a step up from using the built-in speakers, but you're still stuck with a 2-channel downmix. These are firmly 2-channel only, with no pretence at multichannel. (But you could use them as 2 channels of a multichannel setup, by bypassing all their smart bits).

Soundbars usually at least try to achieve some sort of surround soundfield, and give you the centre anchor. (Although I've actually very little familiarity with that market segment, or what "high-end" actually is there).
 

harkpabst

Active Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2022
Messages
169
Likes
351
Location
Germany
But as for the eARC, that connection method is going to be far from ideal for actual home cinema. It can only handle a 2-channel PCM downmix, which will not have the LFE.
Correct me if I'm wrong but to the best of my knowledge any proper stereo downmix should by all means include the LFE. There is no reason not to, except sloppy programming.

But yes, eARC is definitely meant for a 2-channel environment. Integrating LS60 Wireless with an AVR is indeed very much doable by means of the RCA inputs.
 
Top Bottom