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Philharmonic BMR Monitor Semi-Objective Review - Road Show Stop 1

pjug

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The dome is 3 dB hotter through much of the treble - do you have the ability to EQ them?
I do but I would have to find a bigger chunk of time to set up and do it. Might not get to it for a while but I would do it if it seems worthwhile.
Also, it'd be interesting to hear your impressions using a lower high pass filter. It is my understanding that most of the difference we hear between tweeters is in their low end.. partly because that is where human hearing is most sensitive and partly because that is where we see the greatest variability in distortion performance.
I wanted to make sure I was above the crossover with the BMR. I think that is around 3KHz. So I could go a little lower but not too much.
 

pjug

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The dome is 3 dB hotter through much of the treble - do you have the ability to EQ them?
I applied EQ. Still the dome sounds brighter to me. My measurement is not flat (used ARC mic for EQ, and Umik-1 for measurement). But they match. wow1 vs BMR tweeter EQ.jpg
 

ROOSKIE

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Fair point.
I am still not buying a $2200 speaker just to do this test. I am also not one to buy one with the sole purpose of doing this test and then returning it. I think that is a huge abuse of their return policies if I have no intention of ever keeping it. I don't mind returning things that I thought I would use but it didn't work out, but I will not do this.
Thanks for not taking advantage of Crutchfield.
If they want to volunteer them though, maybe we ought to ask.
Anyway I have the M126be and have not measured them in a spin. (I moved and have a laundry list of projects before I could do that) Plus it would not be Klipple anyway.
Okay so the point is to my ear they sound very, very good. Actually magical. The sound is enormously addicting with a huge sense of space,scale and a huge sweet spot. I beleive all of these traits from the magic to big sweet spot are characteristics of a wide, even dispersion design using a nice quality tweeter&guide.
They are so vibrant and yet never brash or harsh - Again likely traits of a beautiful wider dispersion design.
I have discovered I greatly prefer this sound and the overall sound of this pair(easily picking the m126be over other great speakers despite reservations about high$)so someday I want to hear the BMR.

I can't send them in. I've sent a number of speakers in so far and have loved contributing that way and seeing he test results but there is a bit of a wait time and I can't part with these. Hopefully Erin or Amir will get a test set of both the M126be and new BMR.
 

moonlight rainbow dream

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I wanted to make sure I was above the crossover with the BMR. I think that is around 3KHz. So I could go a little lower but not too much.

Well with most crossover topologies, the tweeter is contributing audible sound well below the crossover frequency. In the case of the little RAAL, you're filtering out dramatic harmonic distortion rise in its lower range (something common with all ribbon tweeters).

From Erin's BMR review:

Philharmonic%20BMR_harmonicDistortion_linear_zoom.png



From Amir's Sierra-2 review:

index.php
 

pjug

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Well with most crossover topologies, the tweeter is contributing audible sound well below the crossover frequency. In the case of the little RAAL, you're filtering out dramatic harmonic distortion rise in its lower range (something common with all ribbon tweeters).

From Erin's BMR review:

Philharmonic%20BMR_harmonicDistortion_linear_zoom.png



From Amir's Sierra-2 review:

index.php
I could do, but my thinking was to try to not include much from the BMR mid driver. Also, I think I read @Dennis Murphy saying the new BMR has a newer version of the ribbon with less distortion.

But on what I've tried so far, any ideas on why they don't sound as similar as I would have guessed?
 

moonlight rainbow dream

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But on what I've tried so far, any ideas on why they don't sound as similar as I would have guessed?

As I mentioned before... maybe it's the difference in power response? With the ribbon and its limited vertical dispersion, the sum of the reflected sound from the room that is reaching your ears has to be less, right? That's my best guess.
 

pjug

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As I mentioned before... maybe it's the difference in power response? With the ribbon and its limited vertical dispersion, the sum of the reflected sound from the room that is reaching your ears has to be less, right? That's my best guess.
But when correcting so that the measurement shows equal energy then we account for this right? Unless direct and reflections are received a lot differently by my ears than with a microphone.
 

Beave

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But when correcting so that the measurement shows equal energy then we account for this right? Unless direct and reflections are received a lot differently by my ears than with a microphone.

They are. That's why a single "in-room frequency response measurement" doesn't tell us a whole lot about how a speaker sounds to us.

Even when EQ'd to be the same, the ratio of direct to reflected sound will be different for the two tweeters, and the reflected sound itself will be different due to different horizontal and vertical dispersion. So they won't sound the same to two ears, even if the levels measured at a mic are the same.
 

moonlight rainbow dream

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But when correcting so that the measurement shows equal energy then we account for this right? Unless direct and reflections are received a lot differently by my ears than with a microphone.
Right... I don't know then... maybe it's a time domain thing when it comes to accounting for the reflected energy.
 

pjug

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They are. That's why a single "in-room frequency response measurement" doesn't tell us a whole lot about how a speaker sounds to us.

Even when EQ'd to be the same, the ratio of direct to reflected sound will be different for the two tweeters, and the reflected sound itself will be different due to different horizontal and vertical dispersion. So they won't sound the same to two ears, even if the levels measured at a mic are the same.
Interesting to think about. And also that my comparative impression of these speakers with the filtered pink noise is pretty much opposite of what I thought based on my listening to music with them, where it seems the BMR has more sparkle. But maybe the random nature of the noise defeats the brain's ignoring of late reflections compared to with music where reflections can be related to the direct sound? I don't know but it is interesting to experiment. Maybe I will try similar with the OW1 compared to a narrower waveguided tweeter. Just for my own curiosity and not to go too off course in this thread.
 
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Chromatischism

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Anyway I have the M126be and have not measured them in a spin. (I moved and have a laundry list of projects before I could do that) Plus it would not be Klipple anyway.
Okay so the point is to my ear they sound very, very good. Actually magical. The sound is enormously addicting with a huge sense of space,scale and a huge sweet spot. I beleive all of these traits from the magic to big sweet spot are characteristics of a wide, even dispersion design using a nice quality tweeter&guide.
They are so vibrant and yet never brash or harsh - Again likely traits of a beautiful wider dispersion design.
The M126Be is a speaker I would love to hear and compare to my current pair. I know mine win on controlled directivity but the Revels are a little wider through the lower treble and less so higher up (naturally, shallower waveguide and larger tweeter) so it would be interesting to hear the differences.

I can't send them in. I've sent a number of speakers in so far and have loved contributing that way and seeing he test results but there is a bit of a wait time and I can't part with these. Hopefully Erin or Amir will get a test set of both the M126be and new BMR.
That's exactly how I felt about my S400 MKII's. I had plans to send them to Erin right when I got them. They would be the first Klippel measurements of them. But, I haven't brought myself to do it yet. Then he measured the A500 and I know it's going to be very close to that, so it's less important now.
 

pjug

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I feel a little stupid.

I did the test with noise again. The sound changes noticeably when I move my head around and especially if I nod up and down. I think any differences I was hearing yesterday is a result of head position, and probably stacking is a poor way to do this because of how much head inclination seems to matter. I could not notice either of the tweeters being more sensitive to head inclination compared to the other.

I also switched quickly back and forth with some tambourine recording and overall I'm not sure I can tell any difference between these tweeters with the EQ applied.
 
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Steve Dallas

Steve Dallas

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Hopefully Erin or Amir will get a test set of both the M126be and new BMR.

Your hope is my command. At least half of it, anyway...
 

moonlight rainbow dream

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I feel a little stupid.

I did the test with noise again. The sound changes noticeably when I move my head around and especially if I nod up and down. I think any differences I was hearing yesterday is a result of head position, and probably stacking is a poor way to do this because of how much head inclination seems to matter. I could not notice either of the tweeters being more sensitive to head inclination compared to the other.

I also switched quickly back and forth with some tambourine recording and overall I'm not sure I can tell any difference between these tweeters with the EQ applied.

No harm, no foul. I think people here know better than anywhere how tricky subjective listening tests/comparisons can be.
 

RMW_NJ

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I took delivery of my curved BMRs yesterday, and I am supremely impressed. I have a stable of $1500-$2000 speakers, including the Ascend Sierra LX & EX and Buchardt S400, and I think the BMRs are my new favorite. To my ears they’re the most natural sounding of the speakers I have in my possession.
 

Chromatischism

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I took delivery of my curved BMRs yesterday, and I am supremely impressed. I have a stable of $1500-$2000 speakers, including the Ascend Sierra LX & EX and Buchardt S400, and I think the BMRs are my new favorite. To my ears they’re the most natural sounding of the speakers I have in my possession.
How big is your room?
 

RMW_NJ

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How big is your room?

About 21x15ft with 9ft ceilings. I’m about 13ft away. The LXs are very good too, and I could see some people preferring them, but to me the BMRs have an even wider soundstage and the bass is more natural. On certain tracks the bass on the LX is overwhelming, and at times there is audible port noise which can be distracting. The BMR is also far more efficient and easier to drive to louder volumes (though I assume the LX can play louder if you have enough power).

I’ll also add that I think the BMR is prettier to look at, if that matters, though one speaker did have a small hairline scratch out of the box…not really worth complaining about though.
 
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