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Good German Hifi ?!

Iceberg

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I still don't know why so many German hi-fi products are not marketed globally.

I do a fair amount of business with the Joymans...

They are mostly self sustained, especially intra EU. There are a bunch of Japanese companies that are the same way. It's hard to describe completely without actually being from there, but its something you rarely see in US company business models, the idea that "we are the right size" and you just leave it there, for generations sometimes.
 

Katji

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the idea that "we are the right size" and you just leave it there, for generations sometimes.
:) That's what I'd thought. Something like that.

...Quite understandable, especially considering that "going big" generally "does not end well." :)
 

Iceberg

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Quite right

Interesting. In the US, it's common an American finds out about a big German company they have never heard of, or have no conception of where it fits in the playing field.

I would bet that if he had said Grundig and S Africa, Chile, Tazmania, etc, you would see similar German brands set in place. It still remains a phenomenal business model if you have the rigor for it. That means languages, service, outreach, and then the basic hard nose engineering.

Secondarily, rural US people often know these "obscure" brand names.
 

al2002

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Interesting. In the US, it's common an American finds out about a big German company they have never heard of, or have no conception of where it fits in the playing field.

I would bet that if he had said Grundig and S Africa, Chile, Tazmania, etc, you would see similar German brands set in place. It still remains a phenomenal business model if you have the rigor for it. That means languages, service, outreach, and then the basic hard nose engineering.

Secondarily, rural US people often know these "obscure" brand names.
In the US Grunding was mainly known for its line of portable SW radios. The Satellit series was highly regarded back in the day.
 

al2002

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I find it interesting that in the US German makes such as LINDEMANN, T+A, Audionet , et al don’t have the same market presence as UK firms such as Linn , Naim, Cambridge Audio, Musical Fidelity …..
 

Iceberg

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In the US Grunding was mainly known for its line of portable SW radios. The Satellit series was highly regarded back in the day.

Many were owned by immigrants listening to their home countries back then before the net and 3000 channel cable. Back then the stuff was labelled West German, as opposed to the rust-immediately German from over the stone fence.
 

Katji

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South Africa.
Grundig = portable radios / radio cassettes.
Braun = electric shavers, and later on, household/kitchen appliances.

On the other hand, Phillips = everything. Phillips always did global/international.
American hi-fi ...? Maybe high-end like McIntosh known by audiophiles, but insignificant in the market.
British because British Empire - "trade model," "sphere of influence."

>=1970s : Japanese makes rapidly achieve market dominance. Better value for money. Superior engineering. Bye-bye British. [Especially motorbikes.] Only one I can think of that continued, flourished, is KEF.
But because of time period and age group, British hi-fi hardly existed for me. Left-over from uncles' generation - except for audiophiles maybe. ..."Leftover people", a minority, stuck in the mindset of "Jap crap". [Sound familiar? ...It should.]
 
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Katji

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[ off-topic because not German, but maybe it enlivens the thread. ] ;)
... And now I think of that company that I knew for sewing machines - high-end sewing machines - and then only years later I knew it for motorbikes. ;)
 

Iceberg

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South Africa.
Grundig = portable radios / radio cassettes.
Braun = electric shavers, and later on, household/kitchen appliances.

On the other hand, Phillips = everything. Phillips always did global/international.
American hi-fi ...? Maybe high-end like McIntosh known by audiophiles, but insignificant in the market.
British because British Empire - "trade model," "sphere of influence."

>=1970s : Japanese makes rapidly achieve market dominance. Better value for money. Superior engineering. Bye-bye British. [Especially motorbikes.] Only one I can think of that continued, flourished, is KEF.
But because of time period and age group, British hi-fi hardly existed for me. Left-over from uncles' generation - except for audiophiles maybe. ..."Leftover people", a minority, stuck in the mindset of "Jap crap". [Sound familiar? ...It should.]

Philips is not German. Or spelled Phillips, though an old neighbor's last name was :) They're an innovation juggernaut, but its a Dutch company. Very similar model to the German 3rd world model though. Their products are in the most remote places ever.
 
OP
DanielT

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Philips is not German. Or spelled Phillips, though an old neighbor's last name was :) They're an innovation juggernaut, but its a Dutch company. Very similar model to the German 3rd world model though. Their products are in the most remote places ever.
Philips....from...::)

 

Katji

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Yes, I know, that's why "on the other hand" - and it's unlike that thing of German hi-fi not being internationally marketed.
 
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DanielT

DanielT

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What now comes from where? All these changes in companies, not just in HiFi, who owns what, and manufacturing takes place elsewhere, often in China.

Maybe a new thread? Good HiFi from China? By that I mean created and manufactured in China.
 

Iceberg

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What now comes from where? All these changes in companies, not just in HiFi, who owns what, and manufacturing takes place elsewhere, often in China.

Maybe a new thread? Good HiFi from China? By that I mean created and manufactured in China.

If you add "designed" to created and manufactured, it will be a short thread.
 
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DanielT

DanielT

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If you add "designed" to created and manufactured, it will be a short thread.
We shall see...:)

 

Iceberg

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Nice... will be fun to watch. I suspect the word design will become a problem.

By design I mean like you would at a proper innovative hi end company, with research and rigor. Not copypasta schematics which are lifted... not that kind of "research."
 
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DanielT

DanielT

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Nice... will be fun to watch. I suspect the word design will become a problem.

By design I mean like you would at a proper innovative hi end company, with research and rigor. Not copypasta schematics which are lifted... not that kind of "research."
Well, ask that question, or reflections on definitions, in the thread.:)
 

Gurkerl

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Tbh, try out Nubert. If you don't like them, you can return them, but in my opinion those are the best value speakers and they have stellar customer service. This is totally biased from me since all almost all my speakers are Nubert, but once you tried out the NuVero series you'll be convinced.

And yes, there was a review about a underperforming amp from them in here where the company had presented their measurement and how they reached their specs which is still open for debate who's right. I neither have any amps or processors from them since I think there are better gadgets for this money.

But they are making (passive) speakers for about 50 years now and I think it shows. Their approach is "Ok, we have a price target of X. How much sound quality can we squeeze out for this price?"
For the past couple of weeks I've been looking at different tests on all sorts of European brands, with the intention of finding some great performers and some potential deals on the used market - and Nubert did stand out. Mind you, I haven't listened to any of their offerings yet, but with all their speakers they seem to aim for a rather flat on-axis response and deep bass extension, with the logical trade-off of sensitivity and max spl, all at a sensible price point. Directivity is kinda hard to gauge from the tests at stereoplay, hifitest and so on, but the Nuberts I have seen don't show any egregious flaws, mostly just increased beaming at very high frequencies. The Nuline and Nuvero Series are even made in Germany, the Nuboxx made in the EU, I believe.

For example, the Nuvero 60 as tested in hifitest, stereoplay, and audio. Quite flat on-axis, 10° vertical and 30° horizontal tracks rather nicely, and surprisingly deep extension for a 7 inch woofer. I do wonder what is going on in the "audio" test, as that distortion looks borderline broken (also I thought stereoplay and audio use the same graphs for their issues?)
Or for a "one and done" sorta system for 1400€, the nuPro SP-500.

As far as german, relatively affordable, and good performance goes, Nubert might just be the way to go.
 

fordiebianco

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If you are into the vintage stuff (as I am), I would suggest checking out SABA and Nordmende.


IMG_6243.jpeg
 
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