Review and Measurements of Holo Audio May --- Probably the best discrete R2R DAC

[Dgob]

I used to turn it into mute but I found that way it actually gets hotter for some unknown reason. in Hong Kong electricity isn't expensive and I didn't notice anything keeping it on as I am a heavy gamer also with a 3070Ti PC using in my genelec system, doing 2-3 hours flight sim per day in a 800W PC is way more consuming than a <10W dac in idle, so never bother it.

Many thanks. By "idle", I assume you mean just fully switched on but not playing?

 

[Mart68]

My experience differs. I have the Gustard X26 pro, Topping D90 SE and the Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE and the differences in sonic presentation are very apparent. Or maybe, I have 'lost the plot' - my partner certainly thinks so.

I am more dubious about the value of some of these 'big comparisons' of audio components. The main reasons are that the listeners are generally unfamiliar with the room acoustics of the venue, the supporting equipment or even the musical sources. Then there is the herd influence that can occur.

All-in-all, there are too many variables in such events for the listener to know if what is being presented represents the optimised components in their own listening environment and with their familiar musical sources.

you have a point but the whatever the problems with the playing field it's the same playing field for all of them.

They don't all sound identical that's true but there were no jumps up or down in the quality of the reproduction.

if I'd heard any one of those DACs offer an improvement in sound quality over my Topping then I would buy one. I'm always up for an improvement in sound quality and the money isn't an issue. But it just wasn't there.

 

[Jimbob54]

My experience differs. I have the Gustard X26 pro, Topping D90 SE and the Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE and the differences in sonic presentation are very apparent. Or maybe, I have 'lost the plot' - my partner certainly thinks so.

I am more dubious about the value of some of these 'big comparisons' of audio components. The main reasons are that the listeners are generally unfamiliar with the room acoustics of the venue, the supporting equipment, the musical sources or even how these factors are interacting in producing what is being heard. Then there is the herd influence that can occur.

All-in-all, there are too many variables in such events for the listener to know if what is being 'presented represents' the optimised components in their own listening environment and with their familiar musical sources.

I'll not labour the point, Im sure you have heard the familiar refrain about controlled listening, removing the obvious variables etc etc.

 

[Dgob]

you have a point but the whatever the problems with the playing field it's the same playing field for all of them.

They don't all sound identical that's true but there were no jumps up or down in the quality of the reproduction.

if I'd heard any one of those DACs offer an improvement in sound quality over my Topping then I would buy one. I'm always up for an improvement in sound quality and the money isn't an issue. But it just wasn't there.

I can honestly say that the differences between my noted DACS are veeery obvious. But I do agree that which of these you prefer will come down (as it probably always will) to what you are looking for. To this extent, they do differ but what qualititave 'value' you give to those differences will remain a personal decision.

If you can, for example, listen to your D90Se and a Holo Audio Spring 3, you will hear major, major differences in their presentation. Which you prefer...

 

[Dgob]

I'll not labour the point, Im sure you have heard the familiar refrain about controlled listening, removing the obvious variables etc etc.

Yes, I appreciate this. I have tried to address that 'removal' of variables in my last post.

Put simply, if the venue at which you listened to the Gustard and the Holo May masked differences, I do not think that gave a decent presentation of their performances. I want to say, 'I might be wrong', but the fact of living with these two DACs (until such time as I decide to sell on non-favoured bits) denies me of that ability.

 

[Mart68]

I can honestly say that the differences between my noted DACS are veeery obvious. But I do agree that which of these you prefer will come down (as it probably always will) to what you are looking for. To this extent, they do differ but what qualititave 'value' you give to those differences will remain a personal decision.

If you can, for example, listen to your D90Se and a Holo Audio Spring 3, you will hear major, major differences in their presentation. Which you prefer...

thing is now we are into what we think qualify as 'major' differences. My own room and system are well sorted, I've compared a few DACs at home, I did not find anything I would personally call a 'major' difference.

And that is with sighted listening, no controls, a situation where I would expect to perceive differences just down to the various conscious and subconscious biases coming into play.

Other people listening with me had a different opinion. I don't think I listen in the same way or for the same thing as most audiophiles I know. I tend to listen for flaws, like an engineer would, whilst they are listening for things like 'How close does this sound to a 'real' piano?' I think listening like that may prompt the imagination more. I'm speculating of course.

 

[Dgob]

thing is now we are into what we think qualify as 'major' differences. My own room and system are well sorted, I've compared a few DACs at home, I did not find anything I would personally call a 'major' difference.

And that is with sighted listening, no controls, a situation where I would expect to perceive differences just down to the various conscious and subconscious biases coming into play.

Other people listening with me had a different opinion. I don't think I listen in the same way or for the same thing as most audiophiles I know. I tend to listen for flaws, like an engineer would, whilst they are listening for things like 'How close does this sound to a 'real' piano?' I think listening like that may prompt the imagination more. I'm speculating of course.

Totally understandable, though I suspect your friends might also be listening for flaws when they ask 'how close does this sound to a real piano?' You might just be looking for flaws in differing ways.

Maybe, but I really find it hard to understand how anyone would not notice the major differences in the performances of the flagships Topping D90 SE and Holo Audio May.

As I keep saying, what one prefers is another issue.

 

[Jimbob54]

Totally understandable, though I suspect your friends might also be listening for flaws when they ask 'how close does this sound to a real piano?' You might just be looking for flaws in differing ways.

Maybe, but I really find it hard to understand how anyone would not notice the major differences in the performances of the flagships Topping D90 SE and Holo Audio May.

As I keep saying, what one prefers is another issue.

You might well be a candidate for the blind test DAC challenge @ahofer has

Why is audio objectivism so frequently focused on all the wrong things?

Wrong–there is no such thing as a "Perfect Microphone" I thought that's what I meant when I wrote… there is no one answer to the question of the ‘perfect’ microphone because they vary greatly in their characteristics… So you have me confused by what part of my post you claim to be… Wrong

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Dgob]

You might well be a candidate for the blind test DAC challenge @ahofer has

If the DACs are the D90SE and the Holo Spring 3.

 

[Jimbob54]

If the DACs are the D90SE and the Holo Spring 3.

I cant recall if the Spring 3 has been measured here but assuming it has and measured well, and both are set up level matched, reconstruction filters shown to deliver full band flat FR etc etc then you might make some easy money

 

[YSC]

Many thanks. By "idle", I assume you mean just fully switched on but not playing?

Yes. I just leave it on with myocardial turned off

 

[Mart68]

Totally understandable, though I suspect your friends might also be listening for flaws when they ask 'how close does this sound to a real piano?' You might just be looking for flaws in differing ways.

A friend described the difference between piano on two DACs as 'Sounded like an upright piano on one, and a grand piano on the other.'

To me they sounded identical.

I would doubt my own perception if the technical analysis showed any reason why that difference might be objectively real as opposed to just subjectively perceived. But it doesn't.

That's where I'm at with it.

 

[Dgob]

A friend described the difference between piano on two DACs as 'Sounded like an upright piano on one, and a grand piano on the other.'

To me they sounded identical.

I would doubt my own perception if the technical analysis showed any reason why that difference might be objectively real as opposed to just subjectively perceived. But it doesn't.

That's where I'm at with it.

Appreciated.

 

[Dgob]

I cant recall if the Spring 3 has been measured here but assuming it has and measured well, and both are set up level matched, reconstruction filters shown to deliver full band flat FR etc etc then you might make some easy money

Measurements & Preview of Holo Audio Spring 3 DAC / wPreamp (Prototype)

Holo Audio's Spring series has not been updated for 3 years... Recently, even on ASR, there are rumors that Spring 3 will be released soon. Last year, Jeff stated in his QQ team that he would use May's module to develop Spring 3. It can be inferred that since May is ready, Spring 3 should be...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Jimbob54]

Measurements & Preview of Holo Audio Spring 3 DAC / wPreamp (Prototype)

Holo Audio's Spring series has not been updated for 3 years... Recently, even on ASR, there are rumors that Spring 3 will be released soon. Last year, Jeff stated in his QQ team that he would use May's module to develop Spring 3. It can be inferred that since May is ready, Spring 3 should be...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Nice assuming the production version is the same. Level matching would be incredibly important it it puts out 11v full tilt. What do you have to reduce it to to get it around the same level as the D90 (6v max?)

 

[Dgob]

Nice assuming the production version is the same. Level matching would be incredibly important it it puts out 11v full tilt. What do you have to reduce it to to get it around the same level as the D90 (6v max?)

I need to reduce the Spring 3 by -10dB compared to the D90.

 

[sq225917]

Mart in an unfamiliar room and setup all I could really hear was volume differences and people talking... it wasn't really setup for fine discrimination was it?

 

[Mart68]

Mart in an unfamiliar room and setup all I could really hear was volume differences and people talking... it wasn't really setup for fine discrimination was it?

absolutely not. But that is my point about obsessing over DACs - if at best differences are at the level where we need near optimal conditions to hear them are DACs really an aspect of replay that deserves the level of attention (seemingly obsession with some) that they get?

I could still easily select my favoured loudspeaker in that room, but picking a favourite DAC? No chance.

 

[Dgob]

Mart in an unfamiliar room and setup all I could really hear was volume differences and people talking... it wasn't really setup for fine discrimination was it?

Sadly, this has all too frequently been my experience. I'm aware that when you have the form of assessments carried out by Harmon the questions, settings and environment are optimised. Hence, their purpose is met and their constrained reflections fall within this. However, I have never found the equivalent in these genaralised comparative sessions.

I am not saying that it is impossible. It's just not been my experience.

 

[Dgob]

absolutely not. But that is my point about obsessing over DACs - if at best differences are at the level where we need near optimal conditions to hear them are DACs really an aspect of replay that deserves the level of attention (seemingly obsession with some) that they get?

I could still easily select my favoured loudspeaker in that room, but picking a favourite DAC? No chance.

I think the speakers are "arguably" the most important part of any system and frequently the easiest to distinguish in such settings. But your point about this leading to your view on the distinctions between or value of dac's does not sit so easily with me.

If I were to talk about vinyl replay and suggest that in such venues you would truly struggle to hear the difference between a specific £6k mc cartridge and a specific £300 mm cartridge, people might scoff. Yet I have had that precise experience with two of my cartridges. My view is: get them in your listening environment and give yourself the time and opportunity to know them well. Then, the rest is down to you...

Of course, that is the ideal in situations where home auditions are possible. Although that has not been my case with purchases made over the past 6 or so years . Hence my increased reliance on reviews such as those on ASR and elsewhere. That backed up by careful exploration of retailers' return policies.