Review and Measurements of Holo Audio May --- Probably the best discrete R2R DAC

[rkt31]

I am not certain if it's an issue of quality control, but I had various problems with the optical and USB performance on my Topping D90 SE. That led me to buy the Gustard X26 Pro. However, this could not handle timbre and congestion on large orchestral works [for example, Dvorak's Cello concerto, Op. 104, Piatigorsky, Munch, Boston Symphony Orchestra, where detail is difficult to differentiate at climactic moments].

I am now awaiting the arrival of my Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE, without preamp section, which uses the same trickle down technology from the May . I intend to use my Topping Pre90 and Ext90 to control this and my phono preamp. I am really hopeful that I will be able to sell on the Topping and Gustard, but must now wait to see/hear.

Any views/advice/suggestion welcomed, as usual.

How holo will handle the complex passages if gustard couldn't do it ? A dac wich tries to reconstruct the wave more accurately by using sinc filter with high number of coefficients will be a better choice. Better get chord mojo 2. It will easily beat any of the current crop of dacs.

 

[rkt31]

I have a question...

I'm awaiting delivery of my Spring 3 KTE next week. I'm very much looking forward to using this DAC and bought it specifically for its supposedly fantastic USB input. I planned on selling my DDC as I heard it was not needed because the USB input was so good.

I know that the output via balanced XLR is 5.8 volts and that's how I was planning on using it into my Luxman p-750u headphone amp. However, people are talking on another forum that the 5.8 volt balanced output will be too much and overload the input. My current DAC outputs 4 volts via XLR and I never had an issue. Will 5.8 volts really be too much?
I don't understand this because why would Holo design a DAC that has a 5.8 volt output if it's too much? A lot of preamps have 7,8 or 9 volt output going into amps but for some reason 5.8 volts will be too much into a headphone amplifier? This isn't making sense to me.

Can anyone offer some insight please as to the output voltage being too high? If it was an issue, why would they design it that way?

Thanks.

With high output dac your integrated amp's volume pot will remain in lower position as compared to low output dacs, that's it.

 

[sq225917]

Utter nonsense, level matched and with similar frequency response filter selected there's no audible difference between any of the top dacs.

 

[rkt31]

Utter nonsense, level matched and with similar frequency response filter selected there's no audible difference between any of the top dacs.

Then why people use sinc m filter in hqplayer with million taps to upsample or why they use even pggb ? What if a dac is doing it inside itself ? If all dacs sound same then why not better spend your money on cheaper better measuring dac instead of a many $k boutique r2r dac ? Better first listen to a well designed dac like mojo 2 or d90se or x18.

 

[BDWoody]

Then why people use sinc m filter in hqplayer with million taps to upsample or why they use even pggb ?

Effective sales and marketing based on FUD mostly.

 

[Veri]

I don't understand this because why would Holo design a DAC that has a 5.8 volt output if it's too much? A lot of preamps have 7,8 or 9 volt output going into amps but for some reason 5.8 volts will be too much into a headphone amplifier? This isn't making sense to me.

High voltages are more for studio/loudspeaker use in mind. But between 4V and 5.8V, if you stick to low or medium gain the head-amp is unlikely to overload/clip. In high gain it's possible.

 

[devilboy]

High voltages are more for studio/loudspeaker use in mind. But between 4V and 5.8V, if you stick to low or medium gain the head-amp is unlikely to overload/clip. In high gain it's possible.

Gotcha. Thanks.

 

[sq225917]

Effective sales and marketing based on FUD mostly.

Yup. Just because a thing exists doesn't mean its better than another thing.

 

[Dgob]

from Kitsunehifi website "I/O stages: There is an Op Amp used for input stage and discrete component used for the output stage. The discrete output stage is working in pure class A. The output voltage is 2.9 Vrms for single ended output and 5.8 Vrms for balanced output (dsd playback is half these voltages). The single ended is RCA. Balanced is XLR. They both use the same output stage. It’s BiPolar Junction Transistors, direct coupled. The big MKP capacitor you can see in the output stage is for the power supply, not for signal coupling. And the output impedance is 200 Ohm. " so I believe it's the same, from WolfX's measurement it seems to me the difference between even the original spring and spring 3 is minimal, except that the jitter is present in the 1 and 2 and mostly absent from the 3, the SINAD and FR roll off in NOS mode is mostly the same

Did you ever watch the GoldenSound review on youtube. He feels there is quite a distinction (as does the reviewer on New recod Day). I have never heard the Spring 2, and have only recently taken possession of my Spring 3, so I am not really able to comment on distinctions though. Has any member of ASR experience of A/B'ing both?

 

[YSC]

Did you ever watch the GoldenSound review on youtube. He feels there is quite a distinction (as does the reviewer on New recod Day). I have never heard the Spring 2, and have only recently taken possession of my Spring 3, so I am not really able to comment on distinctions though. Has any member of ASR experience of A/B'ing both?

No I didn’t read that, but from measurement alone and judging from how forgiving our ears is to jitter, with the low enough level of jitter measured I highly doubt anyone could really tell a difference even with spring 1 vs 3. Less so than 2vs 3. Great that holo chased for perfection but in practical sense I don’t believe it can be meaningfully detected. On review sites I would take a huge bag of salt with it as they can even tell cable differences…

 

[Killingbeans]

Did you ever watch the GoldenSound review on youtube. He feels there is quite a distinction (as does the reviewer on New recod Day).

I think the key word here is 'feels'. New Record Day hardly ever use the sentence "it's probably just my imagination" when they should

 

[Dgob]

No I didn’t read that, but from measurement alone and judging from how forgiving our ears is to jitter, with the low enough level of jitter measured I highly doubt anyone could really tell a difference even with spring 1 vs 3. Less so than 2vs 3. Great that holo chased for perfection but in practical sense I don’t believe it can be meaningfully detected. On review sites I would take a huge bag of salt with it as they can even tell cable differences…

I hear you, however, they're both worth a watch if you find yourself on Youtube with a little time to spare. I know that the former actually does make use of measurements and attempts to provide more 'objective' accounts.

 

[YSC]

I hear you, however, they're both worth a watch if you find yourself on Youtube with a little time to spare. I know that the former actually does make use of measurements and attempts to provide more 'objective' accounts.

yea I will, but very satisified with my spring 2, running 24/7 on as with Holo advised to keep it warm and not powering off everytime. and I am skeptical to anything to be audiable

 

[Dgob]

I think the key word here is 'feels'. New Record Day hardly ever use the sentence "it's probably just my imagination" when they should

What's the saying: "even a broken clock..." New record Day has his moments, such as with the open baffle speakers that he champions. But yes, there does often seem to be a distinction between his imagination and objective proof.

No I didn’t read that, but from measurement alone and judging from how forgiving our ears is to jitter, with the low enough level of jitter measured I highly doubt anyone could really tell a difference even with spring 1 vs 3. Less so than 2vs 3. Great that holo chased for perfection but in practical sense I don’t believe it can be meaningfully detected. On review sites I would take a huge bag of salt with it as they can even tell cable differences…

Hi Again,

I just came across the following on the Holo Audio website:

"Jeff Zhu was asked to briefly comment on the Spring3 and it’s differences from previous models… He has said:
Spring3 PLL is nearly the same design as our flagship dac, the May. The main difference between Spring3 and May is that May uses our latest technology and cost is no object, therefore has better components. For Spring3, it uses the latest technology as May. But the main goal is to get high performance at reasonable cost, and I believe we absolutely achieved this goal. Although it’s price is higher than Spring2. I think the performance/cost ratio is higher than Spring2. It’s not much behind May!"

Seems to agree with the noted reviewers. Not that I would suggest that anyone who already owned the Spring 2 would need to get the Spring 3.

Of course, Zhu could be accused of salesmanship for the newest, brightest, shiniest product. However, as I said, it does appear consistent with the online reviewers' comments.

 

[Dgob]

yea I will, but very satisified with my spring 2, running 24/7 on as with Holo advised to keep it warm and not powering off everytime. and I am skeptical to anything to be audiable

When leaving them on permanently, do you have them on 'mute' or just completely active? Also, have you seen any financial hit from doing this and, if so, how much of a % increase in your electricity bills have you seen - if any? The war etc has sent fuel costs through the ceiling in England!

I ask because I'd like to look into the health and safety risks (along with the financial costs) of leaving these on premanently and unattended. And I'm using the term "them" because I am using the Spring 3 along with the Serene - and I assume the same logic goes for both units!?

It does take me back to the old days of using tube amplifiers.

 

[YSC]

When leaving them on permanently, do you have them on 'mute' or just completely active? Also, have you seen any financial hit from doing this and, if so, how much of a % increase in your electricity bills have you seen - if any? The war etc has sent fuel costs through the ceiling in England!

I ask because I'd like to look into the health and safety risks (along with the financial costs) of leaving these on premanently and unattended. And I'm using the term "them" because I am using the Spring 3 along with the Serene - and I assume the same logic goes for both units!?

It does take me back to the old days of using tube amplifiers.

I used to turn it into mute but I found that way it actually gets hotter for some unknown reason. in Hong Kong electricity isn't expensive and I didn't notice anything keeping it on as I am a heavy gamer also with a 3070Ti PC using in my genelec system, doing 2-3 hours flight sim per day in a 800W PC is way more consuming than a <10W dac in idle, so never bother it.

 

[DSJR]

So, when is someone going to do a blind level matched comparison with a Topping E30?

Apologies, I couldn't resist, but over £2k for what is now a commodity product? Not all of us have huge disposable income you know

 

[Mart68]

So, when is someone going to do a blind level matched comparison with a Topping E30?

Apologies, I couldn't resist, but over £2k for what is now a commodity product? Not all of us have huge disposable income you know

well I was at a big DAC comparison on Sunday just gone. Holo May, Gustard, Soekris, Rockna, plus some others.

My take-away was anyone obsessing over the sound of DACs has lost the plot. Although I knew that already.

 

[Jimbob54]

well I was at a big DAC comparison on Sunday just gone. Holo May, Gustard, Soekris, Rockna, plus some others.

My take-away was anyone obsessing over the sound of DACs has lost the plot. Although I knew that already.

Exactly- even if we set aside the whole "all dacs sound the same" line and assume there could be some audible differences, how significant could they possibly be before you have to conclude one of the DACs under comparison isn't fit for purpose?

 

[Dgob]

Exactly- even if we set aside the whole "all dacs sound the same" line and assume there could be some audible differences, how significant could they possibly be before you have to conclude one of the DACs under comparison isn't fit for purpose?

My experience differs. I have the Gustard X26 pro, Topping D90 SE and the Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE and the differences in sonic presentation are very apparent. Or maybe, I have 'lost the plot' - my partner certainly thinks so.

I am more dubious about the value of some of these 'big comparisons' of audio components. The main reasons are that the listeners are generally unfamiliar with the room acoustics of the venue, the supporting equipment, the musical sources or even how these factors are interacting in producing what is being heard. Then there is the herd influence that can occur.

All-in-all, there are too many variables in such events for the listener to know if what is being 'presented represents' the optimised components in their own listening environment and with their more familiar systems and musical sources.