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Do internal speaker wires matter.

iMickey503

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you may be able to hear the difference if you can also find the G-Spot
for everyone else there's MasterCard.

I wish I had data to back this up, but I did feel there was a difference with subwoofers I wired with Cat5 over an 8 foot run vs some ordinary 16 awg? CCA wire. Resistance wise? The all copper Solid core Cat5 had less resistance then the same Homedepot CCA wire when split into 2 pairs with 4 strands each. But my head FEELS it sounds better or is made to be there.

the mind is a really weird thing.

so what happened was actually true but for reasons other than the quality or the type of wire are used.

what was happening is I was not getting a good connection with the spring clip terminals cups, this was the magic that was happening with the common Home Depot CCa a speaker wire.

I think most of the difference is that people actually are able to hear really come down to the fact that your actual terminations are to blame for the Sonic differences that some people even I claimed to have heard when changing wire. for me it was down to a bad connection. so what I heard was actually happening but not for the sole reason that I changed wires.


I think the saying is the truth is wrapped up in a lie or the lies wrapped up in the truth either way... there is some truth in changing or upgrading your cabling. but no one seems to talk about the real problems that occur with speaker wiring such as the actual dielectric starting to eat away at the actual wire itself corroding.

the other that I found was simply some bad Crimps on some OEM speakers that I purchased.

it has been my experience that those that report a actual upgrade from hearing something like a cable upgrade within a speaker are usually pointing to a fact of a bad internal connection or an intermittent one. the easy and cheap way to deal with this is centrally soldering your speaker terminal connections directly to the wire used inside unlike the Spade connectors which do overtime loosen due to vibrations in the enclosure.

if you live in a high humidity environment? in your speakers are probably 5 to 10 years old it wouldn't be a bad idea to just take a quick look at them for the sake of maintenance.
in my experience the most common culprit is actual degradation of the wire due to corrosion.
this was apparent on some speaker cables where the dielectric was causing a chemical reaction and then corroding the wire from inside the jacket.

a quick way to test this is to physically handle the wires and if they seem somewhat stiff ? that's a valid reason to upgrade your wiring.

for all of the instances as far as I can tell? it's kind of like faking an orgasm.
everyone's happy with the results in the end.
 

JRS

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It's not so much Paul's statement but my question.
I have it on good authority that all the B&W speakers use normal wire. Driver tabs are designed for it. And as mentioned the voice coil is likely 25 to 50 yards of skinny wire. Much better to spend the time experimenting with speaker placement where even a few inches can make for a significant difference. Many people just plop them down w/o doing any listening for stability of center image, depth and width of the soundstage, and bass response as it is usually driven by nearby furniture placement.
 
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JRS

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When you realize that most of "audiophile" componentry relates to sound engineering practices about as much as homeopathy relates to medicine then it all starts to make sense.
Good analogy on multiple levels.
 

richard12511

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When you realize that most of "audiophile" componentry relates to sound engineering practices about as much as homeopathy relates to medicine then it all starts to make sense.

Agreed. I wish it wasn't so prevalent, but it is. I'm fortunate to have been introduced to the right people and reading material before I really had a chance to jump down the "component rabbit hole", but I easily could have. Outside of ASR, the audiophile forum consensus seems to be that "every component matters, and so does component synergy". I can't help but feel bad for folks who genuinely want the best system they can afford, but are misguided towards silly component budgets. Not super rare to see really expensive systems like: $3,000 monoblock amps, $2,500 pre-amp, $2,000 streamer, $2,500 DAC, $1,500 power conditioner, $500 cables, $1,000 noise harvester, and finally... $3,000 speakers, and no EQ of any kind(room or speaker). With a different budget strategy, such a system (or even better) could be purchased for much cheaper. The "synergy" wisdom is especially harmful IMO, as it leads to a continuous cycle of wasting one's money on different DACs, streamers, pre-amps etc, trying to find a DAC that synergies with one's other components :(. Oh well, at least most of them are happy with what they hear, though it does suck that most of the time those folks try their best to get others to follow in their footsteps.
 

roog

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though it does suck that most of the time those folks try their best to get others to follow in their footsteps.
This, especially so, the pressure brought to bear by some, including friends, to follow their unshakable beliefs without foundation and when this doesn't give their desired effect, they ridicule you in front of their like-minded followers is both, testing and hurtful.
 
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JRS

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Agreed. I wish it wasn't so prevalent, but it is. I'm fortunate to have been introduced to the right people and reading material before I really had a chance to jump down the "component rabbit hole", but I easily could have. Outside of ASR, the audiophile forum consensus seems to be that "every component matters, and so does component synergy". I can't help but feel bad for folks who genuinely want the best system they can afford, but are misguided towards silly component budgets. Not super rare to see really expensive systems like: $3,000 monoblock amps, $2,500 pre-amp, $2,000 streamer, $2,500 DAC, $1,500 power conditioner, $500 cables, $1,000 noise harvester, and finally... $3,000 speakers, and no EQ of any kind(room or speaker). With a different budget strategy, such a system (or even better) could be purchased for much cheaper. The "synergy" wisdom is especially harmful IMO, as it leads to a continuous cycle of wasting one's money on different DACs, streamers, pre-amps etc, trying to find a DAC that synergies with one's other components :(. Oh well, at least most of them are happy with what they hear, though it does suck that most of the time those folks try their best to get others to follow in their footsteps.
Totally agree with the exception "most are happy...." My experience is that some are happy almost all of the time and most are living one "fix" to the next, enjoying short interludes of the bees knees, got it tuned......." Never achieving a well balanced coherent system operating in harmony (more or less) with the room causes one to focus on some aspect of the sound, apply a fix, and live happily ever ..... or until that aspect makes them nuts or some other shortcoming captures their attention like a bad itch that can't be scratched. And disproportionate spending is a major cause. Without having to spend a grand for a decent TT, or 800. for a CDP frees up a lot of money. Get a good DAC, good amps, great speakers,a nd save some for DRC and/or room treatments.

I know. I was that guy.
 

Bluzvet

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No, not any more than the extent that external speaker wires matter.

But if you truly believe that external speaker cables make large audible differences, then yes you'd better start cracking open your speaker boxes and replacing the wiring with silver hyperspiral cryo cable. But don't stop there, be sure to open up your amplifier and replace the shoddy wiring in there. And goodness, did you know audio is going through the PC board tracings? Better scratch those off with a screwdriver and replace it with silver tracings.
Dave Belles of Belles Audio /Power Modules uses OCC internal wiring and other xlnt quality wiring in his amplifiers. No shoddy wiring. Various expensive external spkr cables I have heard never justified their price increases. I have heard small or different sound improvements in spkr cables but not enough of an improvement to pay outrageously more money for them and for me it would not change the enjoyment value listening to music.
 
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Bluzvet

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No, not any more than the extent that external speaker wires matter.

But if you truly believe that external speaker cables make large audible differences, then yes you'd better start cracking open your speaker boxes and replacing the wiring with silver hyperspiral cryo cable. But don't stop there, be sure to open up your amplifier and replace the shoddy wiring in there. And goodness, did you know audio is going through the PC board tracings? Better scratch those off with a screwdriver and replace it with silver tracings.
Right on!
 

roog

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All decent speaker manufacturers (e.g. the likes of KEF, Revel etc) will have maximised the performance of their product. If they thought that a few extra pennies on the internal wiring would have given an advantage they’d have seized the opportunity.

Similarly with the current audiophile obsession of replacing the manufactures 'links' on the connection terminals with expensive short loops of cables.

I think that most of this kind of thing comes from, 'the lack of understanding to be able to modify the electronics', leaving the accessible cables and fancy supports as the only thing the the average Joe can fiddle with, so they make a big thing of doing just that.
 

egellings

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I agree; the cables and short jumpers are easy to fiddle with, and placebo effect provides the satisfaction from doing so. It's a done deal!
 
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Paul McGowan of PS Audio had a recent YouTube post about a disappointing practice by speaker manufacturers putting in thin gauge wire inside speakers. I have always wondered if it matters. I see audiophiles buying expensive external cables to power their speakers. However, when you open the speaker cabinet there is this thin copper wire running from the external connections to the speaker. Paul was agitated by this and opined that it was not a good practice but did not offer any scientific data that it undermined audio quality, Does it matter that there is thin gauge wire inside the speaker? Should we open our speaker cabinets now and remove this wire and install thicker gauge wire to gain better audio quality?

It is unlikely to make a lot of difference. I usually use 18ga solid copper wire inside speaker enclosures. For the short run, the tiny bit of extra resistance is of no consequence and solid (vs stranded) wire means I can route the wires where I want them and they will stay there.

The killer is CCA wire ... copper clad aluminum. That stuff is a complete nightmare for crimp on connectors as the dissimilar metals will react with current causing eventual bad connections. It is just as bad for soldering... the aluminum core melts at a lower temperature than the copper coating, the aluminum gets loose on your solder point, immediately oxidizes and then actively rejects solder.

Any of the all copper (CU, OFC, etc.) wires are your best bet.
 

SimpleTheater

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Paul McGowan of PS Audio had a recent YouTube post about a disappointing practice by speaker manufacturers putting in thin gauge wire inside speakers. I have always wondered if it matters. I see audiophiles buying expensive external cables to power their speakers. However, when you open the speaker cabinet there is this thin copper wire running from the external connections to the speaker. Paul was agitated by this and opined that it was not a good practice but did not offer any scientific data that it undermined audio quality, Does it matter that there is thin gauge wire inside the speaker? Should we open our speaker cabinets now and remove this wire and install thicker gauge wire to gain better audio quality?
Paul is super knowledgeable. Don’t even bother researching, if Paul says it, it is either objectively or subjectively true.
 

RobL

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antcollinet

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I think some of you guys need to remember that SimpleTheater is known for his world-famous cables sense of humor.
No emoticon - then poes law applies. ;)
 

Speedskater

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Do you have measuerments to back up that nonsense?
These conductivity statements and charts only come into effect when:
The two wire in question have exactly the same length and exactly the same diameter (cross-section area).

So for two wires of the exact same diameter a 100 inch long copper wire will have the same conductivity as a 107 inch long silver wire.
 
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