Neumann KH420 Review (Studio Monitor)

[DJBonoBobo]

What is the cabinet materiel?

KH 420 G

KH 420 - - Midfield Monitor,Up to 11 m (33 ft),Down to 26 Hz,Down to 34 Hz,Down to 52 Hz,Down to 57 Hz,Domestic Environment,Professional Recording Studio,Up to 6 m (18 ft),Up to 4 m (12 ft),Up to 3 m (9 ft) - Sennheiser Discover True Sound

en-de.neumann.com

BTW, the whole front of the KH310 is made of polyurethane, too.

 

[dfuller]

MDF works very well, it's cheap, and easily workable. Downside is it's not particularly strong.

Aluminum works well too, but it's more expensive and harder to work (really you have to cast it, and creating reusable casting molds costs a freakin' ton of money).

Plastic I can't see much upside to other than ease of casting complex shapes (like waveguides).

 

[Pearljam5000]

I don't know
MDF reminds me of Ikea more than anything else
On the other hand even Focal Utopia is made out of MDF and they cost more than my house

 

[dfuller]

I don't know
MDF reminds me of Ikea more than anything else
On the other hand even Focal Utopia is made out of MDF and they cost more than my house

MDF is a really good speaker cabinet material. It's cheap, it's heavy and nonresonant, and it's easy to machine.

 

[samysound]

this stuff might be a "high end" alternative to more "standard" MDF:

» Valchromat®

www.atlanticplywood.com

Have not seen it advertised for speakers (except for GGNKT)

 

[Sancus]

I suspect cost is a substantial reason that Neumann didn't make full aluminum cabinets for the KH 310 and KH 420, unlike the KH120. The big molds are very expensive and maybe they don't sell enough volume to justify it. Genelec's prices of comparable models are somewhat higher and I also would expect that Genelec sells significantly more speakers in general. The number of models in their lineup wouldn't be feasible if they weren't doing a good amount of volume.

 

[respice finem]

Those monitors are tools, not toys, so the manufacturers just take what works. Even the damage pictures show it does - by absorbing energy.

 

[Somafunk]

In my opinion the main reason Genelec use a cast aluminium construction for the cabinet is due to the rounded construction to ameliorate edge diffraction which would be impossible to construct in mdf, it could be made in carbon fibre and the sound tailored by use of various densities/epoxies used, you could have a choice of surface finishes and lay up design which would be pretty cool.

Neumann designs are basic box construction so no need nor advantage to aluminium construction.

 

[respice finem]

AFAIR the KH 120 is also aluminium.

 

[temps]

Hi

That there is a Genelec bent in ASR constituency is clear and understandable: The company churns out on a regular basis great products with forward thinking engineering and performance. It needs to be clear to all that Neuman has never taken a back seat to Genelec. as a matter of facts, they are their most serious competition. This KH420 is the superior speaker, in most areas. That such is achieved without DSP is not a minus but a plus in my book. That it was achieved many years ago, let you know how good these people at Klein and Hummel have been and for a long while, perhaps before Genelec.

People should not think that High , actual, performance in a room is automatic because of the intrinsic qualities of the speaker. We need to be reminded of this regularly: The Kii3, The D&D 8c, etc.., however amenable they may be to domestic environments do not automatically perform superlatively when placed in a domestic or studio environment, for that matter. In the case of the Kii3, I don't know what DRC or EQ is provided , in the case of the 8c, one needs to master, yes, master REW to extract the best from it... Genelec does provide the GLM tool for its DSP speakers such as the 8361.. Neuman does provide the MA-1, but it requires that the speakers be DSP-equipped or if not, then that at least, the subwoofer must be DSP.. which tends to force you into an all Neumann solution .. then again GLM is an all Genelec solution too... GLM doesn't control non-Genelec subwoofers .. you could cobbler a GLM with another DSP/EQ but ... it becomes a Rube Goldberg situation with GLM for the Genelec and whatever DSP/EQ you use for the subwoofers and integration, will be difficult, definitely not ideal...
Soooooo.. here we are, likely the best speaker reviewed by @Amir thus far.

Peace

It's worth noting that you can go with a Dirac based system and free yourself from "locking in" to a manufacturer's ecosystem. In almost all cases, the cost of multichannel Dirac will be offset buying a consumer sub instead of a professional one. It does seem a bit silly to not use a monitors' built in DSP but when you only have to spend ~$150-200 extra on your room correction, to save $1,000+ on your subwoofer.... not a bad idea, especially since Dirac brought back the systemwide application which is (imo) excellent and thrifty when it comes to CPU cycles.

It doesn't appear that Neumann MA-1 supports the 420 at all? It says it supports monitors the 750 DSP supports, and the 420 is not listed there.

AFAIR the KH 120 is also aluminium.

it is indeed ... while the KH 80 is composite polycarbonate. It'll be interesting to see if KH 120 is still aluminum, and what the KH 150 is made of.

 

[Kervel]

Below, an 8 times cheaper but class leading in low distortion small monitor - the Genelec 8030C.
There is not much difference in distortion between these three loudspeakers at 86 dB .

You can't compare relative distortion when the 8030C rolls off much earlier. Yes it has low distortion at 40hz, but very low output as well. That's why Amir also reports distortion in db together with output level.

 

[pseudoid]

Are these 'Noymun' KH420 speaker cabinets structurally braced internally?

 

[dfuller]

Are these 'Noymun' KH420 speaker cabinets structurally braced internally?

I would be more surprised if they weren't, to be honest - they're big boxes. I didn't see any in the KH310 but that's also a much more compact box. CORRECTION: KH310s do have a brace internally running top to bottom.

 

[Vintage57]

Are these 'Noymun' KH420 speaker cabinets structurally braced internally?

Would it be a deal breaker if not?

 

[pseudoid]

Would it be a deal breaker if not?

It does not apply to the reason for me asking that question... I think swan dives and speakers don't get along... even structurally speaking!

 

[Pearljam5000]

So Basically KH420 should be much cheaper than 8361:
*Aluminum vs cheaper MDF
*Older model/ design / drivers vs newly designed drivers / cabinet
* No room correction
*Coaxial vs "traditional"

 

[Vintage57]

It does not apply to the reason for me asking that question... I think swan dives and speakers don't get along... even structurally speaking!

Agreed

 

[dfuller]

So Basically KH420 should be much cheaper than 8361:
*Aluminum vs cheaper MDF
*Older model/ design / drivers vs newly designed drivers / cabinet
* No room correction
*Coaxial vs "traditional"

I mean... no?
They're bigger. Shipping costs more because of that. They weigh about the same amount.
Those drivers ain't cheap. They're low volume custom designs, with the woofer being (IIRC) made in France (and we all know how much French labor costs). That drives the cost up.
Coaxial doesn't suddenly make a driver better, and dome midranges as a general rule are pretty expensive to do well.

 

[Sancus]

So Basically KH420 should be much cheaper than 8361:

KH420 ARE cheaper at least in the US(~$5200 vs $6000). The biggest cost in any complex product is labour. It is possible that, after the (large) capital cost of the molds, it's actually cheaper for Genelec to mass produce their cabinets with casting. Especially since they're made in Finland where the workers are paid relatively well.

Either way, though, the price of high end products like these are more about what the market is willing to pay relative to alternatives. The KH 420 is competitive with the 8361A. If Neumann CAN make them cheaper, then that's extra margin for them. Though I suspect they're not really that much cheaper to make. I wouldn't be too surprised if the analog crossover and EQ system is actually more expensive than a DSP version would be.

 

[pierre]

Bringing it back on topic to the Neumann, why hasn't the auto EQ addressed the bass dip? I'm assuming the post-EQ preference score takes a hit because of it..
View attachment 204179

AutoEQ could flatten it but below 100 hz (or more) you will need to correct in room in any case.

For this speaker, anechoic EQ is not useful.