Topping LA90 Review (Integrated Amplifier)

[AudioArchitech]

That kind of testing goes beyond the scope of what I have room for, or can easily accommodate.

You have an opportunity to follow up with a review of a product (which ranked 2nd on your SINAD list at one point) that a bunch of people are starting to have issues with now. You have it sitting there and are unwilling to measure it's basic ability to operate properly. It's tiny, no room?

 

[Garrincha]

Take a look at Matrix. Chinese company. Measured performance in SOTA region, great design, peerless build quality, responsive customer support. This is what any company should strive to achieve. Any western company should be shamed if they make something this limited in its use yet showcase it as the next best thing since sliced bread.

Matrix products really look nice and measure excellently, but they are also in a different price range, like many 'western' brands like Audiolab or Cambridge Audio, for example or even above. I don´t know about built quality or reliability, but the comparision to Topping is not fair, the Matrix Element X retails for 3.5k USD, for that amount of money you get the whole 90 series and probably more.

 

[SuicideSquid]

You have an opportunity to follow up with a review of a product (which ranked 2nd on your SINAD list at one point) that a bunch of people are starting to have issues with now. You have it sitting there and are unwilling to measure it's basic ability to operate properly. It's tiny, no room?

Amir has already confirmed his unit is working fine and that he uses it regularly. It's not reasonable to ask him to leave dozens of tested products humming away, sucking down power and taking up space, for months straight to see if they fizzle - and this wouldn't be a good test of reliability anyway, since all it tells you is that Amir's unit did, or did not, die when left on for sixty days straight.

The only accurate reliability rating is overall failure rate over time - we need to know if it's 1%, or 10%, or .1%. Only Topping's got those figures right now.

 

[antcollinet]

You have an opportunity to follow up with a review of a product (which ranked 2nd on your SINAD list at one point) that a bunch of people are starting to have issues with now. You have it sitting there and are unwilling to measure it's basic ability to operate properly. It's tiny, no room?

So you're into demanding what tests @amirm does or does not do now?

And what would be the point. We already know there is an issue. How would it help if Amir tested just the one sample he has. If it fails it would tell us nothing we don't already know. If it doesn't fail it doesn't tell us there is no problem.

Reliability testing on a single unit is pointless.

EDIT : Overlap with Mr S Squid

 

[amirm]

This amplifier seems to lay bare some of the the hollowness of SINAD.

What? This amp aced every measurement I threw at it, not just SINAD. There is not a performance corner that has not been optimized. Power vs THD+N is superb all the way to max power:

And this is against the best amp I had ever measured before. Its noise level is actually Audio Precision analyzer limited. This is why you see those small jumps as the analyzer rescales and its noise figure goes up.

The job of an amplifier is to be the proverbial "wire with gain." Now that we have it, you are going to complain that is not what we want???

Call me cynical, but Topping send out pre-release units to ASR and www.l7audiolab.com/f/topping-la90/, both of whom give glowing opinions and top panther/wolf awards on the day the product is released. Is that more than coincidence? The concerns here are shared over there as well (power, price, impedance, build).

What nonsense is this? To create a level playing field, Topping followed the western approach of giving samples to reviewers and setting a public date for release. Both L7 and I got samples. Others may have too. I don't know about L7 but I have voted down prior Topping amplifier designs: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...and-measurements-of-topping-mx3-dac-amp.7312/

"Is the MX3 transparent enough? Probably for most people. Is it transparent enough for me to recommend it? No. You are much better off with discrete components. You will be paying more though to get that performance."

The notion that I test an amplifier which across every vector produces performance well beyond anything we have seen before, but I should give it something other than high praise is as absurd as it gets.

 

[amirm]

You have an opportunity to follow up with a review of a product (which ranked 2nd on your SINAD list at one point) that a bunch of people are starting to have issues with now. You have it sitting there and are unwilling to measure it's basic ability to operate properly. It's tiny, no room?

What do you mean it is tiny. It would have to be loaded up with my dummy load. It needs a source to run. And it absolutely takes up space on my bench.

Besides, why don't you do this testing? What do you need me for?

 

[AudioArchitech]

Amir has already confirmed his unit is working fine and that he uses it regularly. He doesn't have space to leave dozens of tested products humming away, sucking down power and taking up space, for months straight to see if they fizzle - and this wouldn't be a good test of reliability anyway, since all it tells you is that Amir's unit did, or did not, die when left on for sixty days straight.

The only accurate reliability rating is overall failure rate over time - we need to know if it's 1%, or 10%, or .1%. Only Topping's got those figures right now.

Amir: "I don't use it full time. I pull it out for specific testing of other products (like the power regens)."

 

[SuicideSquid]

Amir: "I don't use it full time. I pull it out for specific testing of other products (like the power regens)."

?

What is your point?

 

[AudioArchitech]

To take out the hype, give it a proper review

What do you mean it is tiny. It would have to be loaded up with my dummy load. It needs a source to run. And it absolutely takes up space on my bench.

Besides, why don't you do this testing? What do you need me for?

Remove the hype, give it a proper review of course

 

[Sharpi31]

Thanks @amirm - great review. I only wish there was less discussion about what this amp is not, and more focus how the amp behaves within its obvious limits. It’s like reading a review of a fantastic new 2 seat sports car and people complaining that it doesn’t have enough space for a large family & dog……

ASR presents the measurements to enable each person to evaluate the suitability of a device given their own specific circumstances. Why get upset if a device doesn’t meet your requirements? Go focus on something that does, and be thankful that the data is provided to enable us to make informed choices.

I bought a PA5 and it has performed brilliantly with my 94db speakers (in a small room) - I did have to tighten the output binding posts, but only once. I’d love an LA90 but (a) I don’t have money burning a hole in my pocket, & (b) I’d need to convince myself that it would be noticeably better than my PA5. To me, the price is reasonable. I don’t need >50W and it’s great that the state of the art is available at under $1000. There are a million overpriced options out there in the realm of hifi - compared with the rest of the market, Topping is definitely offering high performance to price (IMHO).

 

[AdamG]

Amir: "I don't use it full time. I pull it out for specific testing of other products (like the power regens)."

Stop badgering the Man. You made your point and Amir answer you. Enough now.

On edit: You just couldn’t stop yourself could you? Amir does not do reliably testing. It’s out of scope and beyond what he wants to do. Thread ban and Warning issued.

 

[Helicopter]

It's probably more accurate to say that it adds some small waves to the water. From an overall perspective, however, it's not even rocking the boat.

Sure, distortion specs at its relatively low power ratings push the limits... Can't argue that. But in other areas, important areas, it's not exactly a depth charge, blowing the AHB2 out of the water.

I'm trying to figure out the market this plays in. Who is their customer? I guess if you have $800.00 to spend, and if 36/56 watts per channel (8/4 ohms) is what you are looking for, or if you're the last of the big spenders and have $1600.00 to spend for 95 watts (only into 8 ohms--the amp evidently wont bridge into a four ohm load), if a 180 day warranty is OK (it's hard to tell from Shenzhen Audio's Web site what the actual warranty period is, but they state they will honor a defective replacement for six months from date of purchase--Topping's own site says it's a year, but qualify it by saying that local agents set the actual warranty), if the two piece form factor is what you want (four boxes in bridged mode), then it's all there for you.

However, for me, it's not quite the total package. YMMV

I think of noise and distortion as the distinguishing characterics of AHB2. Now all that distinguishes it is a specific combination of noise, distortion, and power. You could say the same about some of the more powerful Class D units; i.e., they also offer a unique combination of the three, especially Purifi and the Hypex NC500. As for this Topping unit, it is number one on the SINAD chart. Two days ago, that was the AHB2's most distinguishing characteristic.

In any case, I will be keeping my dual NC500MP amp with big beautiful VU meters for now, and am anticipating the bigger and better amp Topping has in the pipeline.

 

[Talisman]

ASR presents the measurements to enable each person to evaluate the suitability of a device given their own specific circumstances. Why get upset if a device doesn’t meet your requirements? Go focus on something that does, and be thankful that the data is provided to enable us to make informed choices.

Here I believe I can state that we are all extremely grateful to Amirm for her reviews and site, no one has ever questioned this.
If we were not talking about performance and expectations, what sense would it make to open a discussion thread?
Many, including myself, while recognizing top performance, argue about the usefulness of making many compromise choices in order to obtain a very valid result on paper but absolutely inaudible to human ears, and would prefer a design with fewer star ambitions and more concreteness than common use.
You wrote that if you could you would buy it, but you also wrote that it goes great with your pa5 and your 94 db speakers, so the question arises, do you think you could notice any real difference when listening? Would you spend 450 euros more just for the satisfaction of having "the sota"? So what differentiates you from those who buy exotic audio cables from 300 euros, better in construction but absolutely identical in performance?

 

[Hemi-Demon]

Topping has amazing engineering talent, full stop. Something is missing though when it comes to consumer ergonomics and reliability, for lack of better terms. The device isn't that attractive, no remote, can't run 2-3ohm, and 85W@4ohm at $800
. C'mon 36W at 8ohm

Gotta say though if this was a tube amp, made in the UK, with the same power folks would love it and call it "warm". So I just don't know how to judge the absolute engineering excellence, but paltry power.

I will keep my buckeye amps. If this had a remote, I probably would have purchased one, since I don't "need" more power.

It's not the responsibility of Amir to prove long term sustainability, but I would like to see this run non stop for say a week in light of some of Topping's issues with dacs, and now amps. Or maybe Topping can open up a viable repair option here in the US, now that they are creeping into the high cost area.

Props to JohnYang

 

[Vini darko]

For those who are intrested Wolf checked for prefomance into high impedance for the crazy headphone crowd.

 

[C. Cook]

Nice job by Topping. Personally I like the external brick AC/DC converter. Not only does it save chassis space and therefore room on your desk or stand, but it takes the conversion activity outside of the cabinet and away from the amplifier circuitry. Very nice little amp, but I'm with Amir's conclusion that it's too modestly powered for me. It'll be very tempting if they (or someone else) come out with a similar amp with double or triple the power, but that'll probably be expensive AF.

IMO, amplifier mfg's charge way too much of a premium for higher power. Same as cars, I guess, where it's quite pricey to make the jump from a four-banger to a turbo and V6 or V8. That said, it makes more sense in cars with completely different motors and the cost of production. With amps, it doesn't really compute that you have to pay double the price for double the power, but that's almost always the case.

 

[C. Cook]

I think of noise and distortion as the distinguishing characterics of AHB2. Now all that distinguishes it is a specific combination of noise, distortion, and power. You could say the same about some of the more powerful Class D units; i.e., they also offer a unique combination of the three, especially Purifi and the Hypex NC500. As for this Topping unit, it is number one on the SINAD chart. Two days ago, that was the AHB2's most distinguishing characteristic.

In any case, I will be keeping my dual NC500MP amp with big beautiful VU meters for now, and am anticipating the bigger and better amp Topping has in the pipeline.

Who makes an NC500MP amp with VU meters? That sounds pretty cool and I've never seen one.

 

[srkbear]

For those who are intrested Wolf checked for prefomance into high impedance for the crazy headphone crowd.
View attachment 202686

Can you please help me interpret this graph?

 

[Sharpi31]

Here I believe I can state that we are all extremely grateful to Amirm for her reviews and site, no one has ever questioned this.
If we were not talking about performance and expectations, what sense would it make to open a discussion thread?
Many, including myself, while recognizing top performance, argue about the usefulness of making many compromise choices in order to obtain a very valid result on paper but absolutely inaudible to human ears, and would prefer a design with fewer star ambitions and more concreteness than common use.
You wrote that if you could you would buy it, but you also wrote that it goes great with your pa5 and your 94 db speakers, so the question arises, do you think you could notice any real difference when listening? Would you spend 450 euros more just for the satisfaction of having "the sota"? So what differentiates you from those who buy exotic audio cables from 300 euros, better in construction but absolutely identical in performance?

I understand your perspective, however all amplifier designs are compromises and each of us has different requirements and priorities. I fully accept that many people would prefer a different set of compromises, eg. lower SINAD and higher power and load stability. What I don’t understand is a resentful tone when a specific product doesn’t align with one persons specific preferences/requirements (I’m not saying you have done this). If I had lower sensitive speakers with lower/tougher impedance and a huge listening room, I’d be focussing on the Hypex, Purifi options and not spend my time complaining that this option isn’t what I wanted. I’m not looking for a fight here - I know others will have different perspectives.

You misunderstood what I wrote. I said I’d love to ‘have’ an LA90 (ie. I’d happily use one gifted to me), but I don’t see myself buying one now that I have a PA5 and the performance envelope of that amplifier is sufficient. My last purchase was a MiniDSP Flex with Dirac - I’m sure that the digital crossover and room correction gives me better return on investment than upgrading my PA5 to an LA90. Next step will be some cabinets for my boxed JBL 2226H drivers, so I can add these to my 2-way (12” plus constant directivity waveguides) for some additional low end performance. I’m looking forward to seeing what I can do with the Flex and the extra 15” cabinets……

 

[AdamG]

Who makes an NC500MP amp with VU meters? That sounds pretty cool and I've never seen one.

Here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...amplifier-builder-line-up-announcement.16835/

Please take further discussion of this product to the linked thread. Thank you for your assistance.