Ethan Winer Builds a Wire Null Tester

[RayDunzl]

btw it would be cool to find an especially bad cable where the difference would exist. i.e. thin, extra bad materials and connectors.

Good luck...

 

[cjfrbw]

"“The group was A-Bing different cables, and unbeknownst to them, the engineer runningthe test swapped out a set of cables for coat hangers with soldered-on speakerconnections. Not a single one was then able to tell the difference between the Monster Cable and the hangers, and all agreed that the hangers sounded excellent.” – Engadget"

This is really going to run up the cost of coat hangers.

 

[amirm]

"“The group was A-Bing different cables, and unbeknownst to them, the engineer runningthe test swapped out a set of cables for coat hangers with soldered-on speakerconnections. Not a single one was then able to tell the difference between the Monster Cable and the hangers, and all agreed that the hangers sounded excellent.” – Engadget"

A while ago I researched this and it was a bit of a fish story that got exaggerated over time. Indeed I tested a coat hanger in my test of speaker wires and found it to be awful:

It is also miserable to terminate.

 

[Ron Party]

But Amir, I seem to remember a certain someone (at the *other* site with which we were involved) with whom I bumped heads repeatedly who claimed that copper wire from Italy had superior performance, so maybe you ought to acquire a hanger from a high end Italian men's fashion store to test?

 

[amirm]

But Amir, I seem to remember a certain someone (at the *other* site with which we were involved) with whom I bumped heads repeatedly who claimed that copper wire from Italy had superior performance, so maybe you ought to acquire a hanger from a high end Italian men's fashion store to test?

Now, there is an idea.

 

[maty]

The answer is blowing in the geometry -> starquad.

The Importance of Star-Quad Microphone Cable

https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/ap...-the-importance-of-star-quad-microphone-cable

Very instructive video:

 

[invaderzim]

But Amir, I seem to remember a certain someone (at the *other* site with which we were involved) with whom I bumped heads repeatedly who claimed that copper wire from Italy had superior performance, so maybe you ought to acquire a hanger from a high end Italian men's fashion store to test?

Sure, but then all your music has an Italian accent.

 

[cjfrbw]

Aluminum foil keeps the signal fresh, but I don't like the way it crumples the sound.

 

[carlthess40]

I make some of my cables. Short runs of speaker cables and rca cables. I would love to get some test data about them please send me a pm and see how we can go about doing this. I just want to make sure I’m not spinning my wheels with them

 

[Johnny2Bad]

And the problem with that is? Amir spent as much as a brand new car on an analzyer to tell him Schiit is, well S#$t... Engineers do that sort of stuff, they can't help themselves- it's hardwired.



You'd never be able to null much at all. Way too many variables to obtain a decent depth of null.

Even two identical analog Class AB amplifiers can't be nulled very well. Try it yourself, on a common ground (non BTL) stereo amplifier, lift the two speaker negatives and tie them together (or just hook your sacrificial speaker to the two hots) Play a mono source. Silence is your goal. Tweak volume and balance positions. I do it all the time to look for balance and volume tracking issues, along with preamp front end and tone control issues when repairing/restoring gear.

You need Audio Diffmaker
(WindowsOS, Free D/L)

 

[derp1n]

Diffmaker is incredibly flawed.

 

[Johnny2Bad]

who checks the anti-fake news fact-checking services whether or not their assumed facts are actual facts ?

Indeed, it isn't as simple as stating digital is a different form of analog. It's very, very misleading even though it has some truth to it.

Digital signals pass through analog cables using different voltage level ranges for '0' or '1' or by indicating a transition from low-to-high or high-to-low within specified time frames.

Still the signals are digital even though being represented by voltage levels.
They are not analog signals even though these too are varying voltage levels.

They are analog signals that represent digital data.
How is it that you can have an analog signal that is not an analog signal?

Diffmaker is incredibly flawed.

It has issues that can result in non-valid results, but those results are obvious. That does not mean every result is non-valid and those too are obvious.

 

[Blumlein 88]

They are analog signals that represent digital data.
How is it that you can have an analog signal that is not an analog signal?

It is a signal you have to interpret based upon the digital data it carries. It only makes sense digitally. So there can be an examination of the original signal sent vs the received signal on an analog basis, but it could be of horrid analog quality and transmit digital information perfectly.

It has issues that can result in non-valid results, but those results are obvious. That does not mean every result is non-valid and those too are obvious.

I'll sometimes use Diffmaker, and end up pissed off about it every time before I'm done. Even when it accomplishes what I wanted it to do. I also don't agree the non valid results are always obvious. Usually they are, but not always.

 

[SIY]

Michael Mardis ran a blind test comparing copper to a banana and a potato. Posted the files at diyAudio. No-one could identify which was which. But damn, the excuse-making when the identities were revealed was delightfully entertaining.

 

[Sal1950]

I make some of my cables. Short runs of speaker cables and rca cables. I would love to get some test data about them please send me a pm and see how we can go about doing this. I just want to make sure I’m not spinning my wheels with them

I think that testing has about run it's coarse for now.
If your terminating something for speaker wire from a quality supplier in at least a 12 gauge or better you should be good to go.
You can check the first test string for specific recommendations.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/when-12-gauge-wire-is-not-12-gauge.3/

 

[restorer-john]

Michael Mardis ran a blind test comparing copper to a banana and a potato. Posted the files at diyAudio. No-one could identify which was which. But damn, the excuse-making when the identities were revealed was delightfully entertaining.

He just copied my post at Audiokarma that I had done 6 years earlier in 2007!

http://audiokarma.org/forums/index....nnects-tested-and-exposed.98923/#post-1008536

It turned into yet another cable debate and got closed....


"Attached are some of my experiments in the sound quality of various 'natural' interconnects. Attached are images of the equipment used, a Rotel standalone D/A RDP980, a Sony X7esd CD player (my fav), and a Sony TAE77es preamp, along with a TAN77es power amplifier running into Mission M53 speakers.
Of course, the carrot introduced a somewhat colored sound but enjoyable nonetheless. The potato I felt was definitely an earthy character with some detail left a bit too buried and perhaps a little dirty. The piece of chicken was interesting in its fibrous yet bland presentation whereas the strawberry, of course, produced the most luscious and truly satisfiying sound of them all.
For the record, bit for bit identical over any fruit or vegetable I tried compared to a straight coax 75ohm cable. I also liked the banana's sound- sorry no pics as I ate it soon after..."

PS, that is a kiwi fruit to the left. I think it escaped my tests..

 

[Blumlein 88]

He just copied my post at Audiokarma that I had done 6 years earlier in 2007!

http://audiokarma.org/forums/index....nnects-tested-and-exposed.98923/#post-1008536

It turned into yet another cable debate and got closed....


"Attached are some of my experiments in the sound quality of various 'natural' interconnects. Attached are images of the equipment used, a Rotel standalone D/A RDP980, a Sony X7esd CD player (my fav), and a Sony TAE77es preamp, along with a TAN77es power amplifier running into Mission M53 speakers.
Of course, the carrot introduced a somewhat colored sound but enjoyable nonetheless. The potato I felt was definitely an earthy character with some detail left a bit too buried and perhaps a little dirty. The piece of chicken was interesting in its fibrous yet bland presentation whereas the strawberry, of course, produced the most luscious and truly satisfiying sound of them all.
For the record, bit for bit identical over any fruit or vegetable I tried compared to a straight coax 75ohm cable. I also liked the banana's sound- sorry no pics as I ate it soon after..."

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PS, that is a kiwi fruit to the left. I think it escaped my tests..

If you had been using those to feed a Schiit dac, it would have had a................. different quality to it.

 

[SIY]

John, did you actually make sound files from those? That would be... delicious.

edit: Mardis actually did this with analog signals, not digital. Still, your work was highly amusing and creative. Kudos!

 

[solderdude]

They are analog signals that represent digital data.
How is it that you can have an analog signal that is not an analog signal?

It is exactly as Blumlein already mentioned.
A digital signal is not an analog waveform. Listen to it and you will realize that it is not an analog signal.
It is a voltage representing a digital value or transition, not an analog signal.
It propagates over a cable like HF signals, not like an 'analog' audio (or video) signal.
A digital signal is very different from an analog signal in many, many ways.
The only thing these signals have in common is that there is a varying voltage over time.
But they vary in very different ways and at very different speeds.

An analog signal represents a value of a signal in a 1:1 ratio.
A digital signal represents a 'high' or 'low' level, and is not in an 1:1 ratio.

Maybe its a matter of symantics... a varying voltage does not mean it is 'analog'.
A TTL signal is a varying a voltage but is not 'analog'.
A varying voltage ≠ analog, but an analog signal can be a varying voltage.

 

[amirm]

One note on digital cables: to the extent the timing is embedded in them, e.g. S/PDIF cable, then that aspect is analog in nature. In other words, there is no digital number representing the time. The receiver needs to extract that timing from pure positioning/analog nature of the pulses.