Either a bad speaker or more likely simply reflects the change in room. Nearfield may not mean much in a room when the wavelengths approach and exceed room dimensions. Seriously doubt it is speaker break-in.
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Do Audio Speakers Break-in?
- Thread starter amirm
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Especially with P/A speakers one shouldn't dismiss the idea of a substantial break-in so easily (by just unfounded speculation). There is data in my drawer:
A bass/mid driver sized 8", coil 2", fs nom. 78Hz, actually before break-in fs is 120Hz. After 2 hours of full excursion, happily eating up some 100Watts, though, it drops close to nominal values. After a few weeks it restored to the initial 120hz. Eventually it settled at very close to OEM's data.
In general some 30% or so doesn't harm, since optimum enclosure design follows the whole parameter shift, getting to the same enclosure, virtually same response. But 50%+ really suck. In HiFi such would be inacceptable, in P/A a driver gets beaten anyway.
So, what is seen so often here on audioscience are discussions without any supporting data. It puzzles me why that is.
dc655321
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To be fair, you've provided no data yourself.
I actually measured not only the example above, but many more speakers. I measured it personally. In case You don't tend to trust my word, it's on You. How many here are even willing to learn to do measurements. Let alone the expense of 70$ for a qualified microphone?
Just curious.
The measurements you presented as evidence were taken in a different room in a different apartment FFS. How seriously do you expect that to be taken?
You didn't mean me, did You? I just gave some numbers for a crass example (post #1162), quite along the lines drawn by post #1160. Number #1162--a lots of discussion. Actual data seems to be very hard to generate, right? But, nothing is more practical than a good theory.
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Barry_Sound
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Anecdotal evidence: I can certainly say that a brand new pair of Wharfedale EVO 4.2s changed a lot in 2 weeks of listening, from over-pronounced mids to a more balanced presentation. Might just be me getting used the sound, but I have not experienced the same behaviour with other speakers that I also bought brand new. Also didnt happen with the smaller EVO 4.1s.
dc655321
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Bass output increased while moving to a more leaky room twice as large as the old one? As I said, it's the other way around. Both initial and recent EQing were made with nearfield measurements with appropriate gating, so this should not be a room issue. This driver is flat through 200-1000 Hz as-is, just needs some boosting for lower frequencies. I have the data. I did also measure at 1 m distance for summed response, but that's far from flat anyhow. Eighteensound makes high quality drivers, the one in the picture is a very good midbass, neo-magnet driver. Sounds great, end-game material.
As pointed out PA drivers, especially larger ones, do need break-in more often than not.
Barry_Sound
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Other factors to consider:
- Some speakers might change during "break-in", others dont - not possible to conclude from one to every speaker in the world
- Some people might not be sensitive for changes in sound character, others might be. Even the shape of the ear has a drastic effect on sound. (Dont believe it? Push your auricles forward next time you are listening to speakers ...)
www.britannica.com
- Some speakers might change during "break-in", others dont - not possible to conclude from one to every speaker in the world
- Some people might not be sensitive for changes in sound character, others might be. Even the shape of the ear has a drastic effect on sound. (Dont believe it? Push your auricles forward next time you are listening to speakers ...)
Human ear - Sound Waves, Outer & Middle Ear
Human ear - Sound Waves, Outer & Middle Ear: The outer ear directs sound waves from the external environment to the tympanic membrane. The auricle, the visible portion of the outer ear, collects sound waves and, with the concha, the cavity at the entrance to the external auditory canal, helps to...
Righty-right, that's data. At least, in case I am trusted as being honest, my example presents a counter-example to the statement that speakers do not break in. This one did significantly up to where it wasn't usable not broken-in.
Curiously, once data (or appropriate conclusion) is presented, people don't trust it for speculative reasons. Not even willing to do their own measurements, theorizing along.
Should have expected an immediate attack.
I have a $1200 measurement microphone and have performed many experiments in the past. It is much more than theory to me. What I do not have is time or will to justify everything posted to doubters refuting decades of manufacturing and other data. Just don't really care... Nor do I post my resume on every post. At some point Ripley rules -- believe it or not.
That said, I have no experience with the specific drivers cited. But room acoustics can be hard to analyze and I would not so readily (dare I say "speculatively"?) dismiss that as a cause without evidence, either.
More Dynamics Please
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I can see the headline now:
Amateur Audio Enthusiasts Challenge Research By Toole, Olive, Et Al
Amateur Audio Enthusiasts Challenge Research By Toole, Olive, Et Al
Damnit - sorry, no I didn't mean you. I mixed up replies.
Sorry again. I should know better.
Don, sorry. There is serious plasticity in some driver suspensions. I've seen that most prominently in the anonymous driver I mentioned above. The effect of changing resonance frequency over time--rapidly to lower fs under stress, slowly creeping back up, within weeks(!), is a matter of fact with that particular driver.
Usually I don't care. Reason is, that with a shift of fs other parameters change accordingly, so that the Thiele/Small alignment, hence the response doesn't change with any significance.
But here the shift was so crass, that the driver couldn't be used as originally intended. I didn't want to play as loud as the driver was designed for. At least not all the time--110dB anybody?
Another aspect is a shift in fs due to excursion. Usually the suspension stiffens with higher excursion. But (some) SEAS drivers lower their fs with higher excursion, as was confirmed by a SEAS technician. See https://hificompass.com/en/reviews/seas-excel-6-w18nx003-e0096-08-midwoofer-review, keyword "Claus Futtrup". Maybe You take that as another hint for the possibility, that my observation wasn't supersticious.
I'm quite aware that this discussion is focused on off-the-shelve hifi-speakers. I never claim a need for breaking-in these. Even if there was, the usual suspects wouldn't notice anyway. The break-in is just an excuse for common cognitive dissonance, considering an anyway unreasonable purchase.
I was told by Parasound that the A21 amplifier breaks in, and I suppose there is a rational with capacitors, so you can't always blame the consumer for this information.
- Rich
- Rich
That reference is one of the clearest and most accurate descriptions of middle ear function I've seen on-line.Other factors to consider:
- Some speakers might change during "break-in", others dont - not possible to conclude from one to every speaker in the world
- Some people might not be sensitive for changes in sound character, others might be. Even the shape of the ear has a drastic effect on sound. (Dont believe it? Push your auricles forward next time you are listening to speakers ...)
Human ear - Sound Waves, Outer & Middle Ear
Human ear - Sound Waves, Outer & Middle Ear: The outer ear directs sound waves from the external environment to the tympanic membrane. The auricle, the visible portion of the outer ear, collects sound waves and, with the concha, the cavity at the entrance to the external auditory canal, helps to...
New room with 5 months difference don’t sounded convincing to me, not to say new room, in my Same room if I move the sub a few feet away it gives quite prominent change in low bass due to wall reflections, plus I don’t think there’s any room which is room mode free, unless you lived in an anechoic chamber..
Don’t forget amirm once showed in his KH80 measurement temperature did change woofer response quite a bit, so different room geometry, room size and temperature makes more sense to me in this case
Back in the day all acute enthusiasts used moving coil pickups with their vinyl records. The life span of the diamond tip was rated at about 1000hrs, after which a replacement wasn't possible. The whole pickup was exchanged by the OEM, or, more often changed to the next best specimen, surely more expensive (edit: quality analog asked for 500$ up (and up and up) in todays money).
So, two choices: (a) listen to degraded sound for 400hrs with kind of a training pickup, dusting and wearing the record disk, wasting time, since speakers aren't ready, or (b) upuse the precious, fancy extra sharpened polished stylus tip with equivocal speakers, that one just bought (not cheap) to increase sound quality.
Bad deal both ways. Again, can it be https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance? Once the new purchase fills the living room, all of the previous eagerness falls off, more often than never leaving just bordedom behind. Decision made, but was it right? What are these things made for!
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