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Hegel H95 Review (Streaming Amplifier)

DSJR

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Maybe has something to do with international distribution, dealer networks, lifestyle marketing…and less (nothing) to do with synergy…and are you sure they use them in development? Really?
Certainly recently, Harbeth used regularly serviced Quad amps at the factory and pics have been posted showing a pro model 520 at least being used. Other claims have been made of use of 606 family amps and even a 303 for tweeter testing a while back...
 

Rotiv

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There will be a lot less stones being thrown if people based their purchasing decisions on reality instead of buying stuff based on BS audiophile reasons while getting defensive because their product didn't measure well.

For example I spend more than I need to on clothes and handbags, but I don't say my handbags transcend space and time, and the leather is so pure the imperfections are not measurable even with an electron microscope. I'm realistic about what I'm buying and why I buy it.
I believe you don't, but in forums off clothes and handbags they do. Also on the website of those brands.
 

VoRAT

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Yes, as a "new special delight" product. And the source material was my burned "demo CD" favourites so I did have a little "sense" of what was presented. Somewhat disappointed re: price & all that slick curviness. But the amp was definitely not doing what those KEFs needed. Shame?
If I was KEF, or indeed Hegel, I’d be shutting that dealer down, as they obviously don’t have a clue what they’re doing.
 

Doodski

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If I was KEF, or indeed Hegel, I’d be shutting that dealer down, as they obviously don’t have a clue what they’re doing.
I've seen it before too. Some audio sales people think combining a low powered inexpensive amp ($2K is not much in high end) with big expensive difficult to drive speakers is some sort of statement.
 

Everett T

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when I crank up my H95 to 99 (max) I don't hear a thing, zero. so not sure how it correlates to all those noise and distortion measurements.
Maybe your speakers produce higher distortion and dominate or your hearing isn't as good as others...
 

arcy

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Maybe your speakers produce higher distortion and dominate or your hearing isn't as good as others...
LS50 Meta and don't worry about my hearing it is very good. Also, I said I don't hear anything when I should hear more noise if according to you my speakers were producing more distortion to "dominate" amp. what a great logic
 

Everett T

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LS50 Meta and don't worry about my hearing it is very good. Also, I said I don't hear anything when I should hear more noise if according to you my speakers were producing more distortion to "dominate" amp. what a great logic
I said maybe your speakers do and maybe it could be your hearing ;) Sounds like your golden ears and perfect speakers have you satisfied, enjoy the hobby.
 

PierreV

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Maybe your speakers produce higher distortion and dominate or your hearing isn't as good as others...
Well, those of us who own multiple amplifiers and aren't married to any of them know it is almost impossible to distinguish blind between, say, a 10yo cheapish Yamaha stereo amp, Hypex NC400 monoblocks or more expensive "audiophile" amplifiers as long as you don't push them outside of their driving abilities.
 

bravomail

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so. I just cannot help but notice that AIYIMA A07 have similar SINAD to Hegel amp. A07 gets praised. Hegel gets bashed. I understand the price difference issue. But amp is an amp at the end. I also understand broken pre-out issue in Hegel. A07 pre-out (3.5mm input/output plug) is not tested at all. In light of all this - I'd say for Hegel amp "solid amp performer, but not recommended at this high price point, also see broken DAC pre-out section".
Thoughts?
 

phion

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Which is exactly the problem. Same gain level is a criterion simply not applicable in this case. We don't even know the internal DAC send level at its analog port, do we? So how can we know the required gain?

Rather, you have opted to fudge with the digital input level to get to the same output with that fixed gain only useful for the analog input.

Amir, c'mon, it's time to admit you made a methodological error. Nothing wrong with that, because "He who does nothing makes no mistakes".

But you may want to rethink your methods (hint: look at how SoundStage did it), actually I (and many others) urge you to do so as otherwise your credibility is falling apart more and more....
... I have little hope this will ever happen because Narcissists don’t learn from their mistakes because they don’t think they make any

I don't understand what the issue is with the review. It seems to me that there is sufficient information in different graphs and measurements provided by @amirm that anyone who has reasonable facility with elementary math should be able to derive the parts that aren't explicitly stated. And they do more or less match the conclusions of the review. Take overall SINAD for example, and let's agree with your objection that the digital input level fed to the system was too low and the amplified DAC noise hurt the number more than it would in typical usage. Sure, but there is also the IMD sweep graph that gives you SINAD for the DAC without clipping and it's at best 82dB. The amplifier itself is also measured from analog input to give SINAD of 82dB at best for any power output. So what we have is a cascade of two systems with equal SINAD, which one can show that results in about 6dB lower overall SINAD, so we will have about 76dB SINAD at best for the integrated amp when measured in best level performance of the DAC and amp, which is only a few dBs better than what amir reported and confirms his summary that the DAC is hurting the amp stage.

what am I missing?
 

ousi

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But can not tube amp have a certain increase in the bass frequencies? (not sure all tube amps have a straight frequency curve/respons that is). If so, maybe it's because of that what you thought sounded better?:)
I just used the 8W/ch SET tube amp as an example. It's not just the bass, it's actually the other parts of the spectrum too. I don't have measurement devices aside from a cheap dB meter that I used to level match with a 1kHz tone, so likely the non-linearity of other amps I had at the time also played a part? Overall I just didn't like the Hegel Rost ;)
 

phion

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I don't understand what the issue is with the review. It seems to me that there is sufficient information in different graphs and measurements provided by @amirm that anyone who has reasonable facility with elementary math should be able to derive the parts that aren't explicitly stated. And they do more or less match the conclusions of the review. Take overall SINAD for example, and let's agree with your objection that the digital input level fed to the system was too low and the amplified DAC noise hurt the number more than it would in typical usage. Sure, but there is also the IMD sweep graph that gives you SINAD for the DAC without clipping and it's at best 82dB. The amplifier itself is also measured from analog input to give SINAD of 82dB at best for any power output. So what we have is a cascade of two systems with equal SINAD, which one can show that results in about 6dB lower overall SINAD, so we will have about 76dB SINAD at best for the integrated amp when measured in best level performance of the DAC and amp, which is only a few dBs better than what amir reported and confirms his summary that the DAC is hurting the amp stage.

what am I missing?
SoundStage report actually states that the analog input gives 8dB better performance than digital, which is consistent with what I said and overall points to the direction that this amp is being hurt by its bad DAC in all types of usages.
1638295498083.png
 

JRS

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Is really SINAD the name of the game? Is it really that simple? Hard to imagine all those companies not being able to pull almost anything they would want for the money they charge. Maybe there is a little more to the sound than just SINAD. Why not stick with Amazon Link or March Audio P122 with 100 sinad for 600$ and call a day? Why Herbeth, Keff, Dynaudio, and other companies use Hegel to present/develop their speakers? Are they that stupid to not know?

Also here are two reviews one prising Hegel H90 and the other not liking H390 sound but they both speak about common Hegel sound characteristics (pitch-black background and instrument popping out of that background etc.). So it seems Hegel might sound at least somewhat different than other amps:

a guy who like Hegel sound

this guy doesn't like Hegel
I know this has been answered, but here's another spin. First of all both reviews sing the praises of the Hegel, only in the case of the second review, he said digital (and here he goes off the deep end to explain that it's the best kind of digital and starts mumbling about algorithms and whatnot to explain the "artificial" wide separation instead of merely accepting the intrinsic limitations inherent to phono playback, before finally admitting he has no idea what he is talking about) but goes on to make claims about how exceptional the sound was, and then concludes the review with analog sucked, I tried and tried, and this unit simply couldn't make magic.

What I heard were too infomercials, only deprived of much in the way of actual information. I also have a guess as to why instruments jumped out of the velvety black backgroud--which surely is not related to the mediocre noise levels that were measured (and might be a cause were they exceptional and playback of a high dynamic range recording was played back st moderate to loud volumes--that would make sense). What if these technically ignorant and self appointed audio gurus had been drinking from the same batch of kool aid during their self taught journeys through the strange world of audio and came to believe that negative feedback is a flaw and only the most judicious use is allowed, and then sparingly. I suspect that given the way the mind works (and illinformed audio press enables) is that negative feedback came to mean that the sound was constrained, confined and strangled by the unrelenting chains of negative feedback. Now a product in hand whose only claim to fame is some device that enables minimal use of negative feedback. Now unfettered by large amounts of global feedback, the sound issued forth free, fluid, and fully expressive. Do you see the way that dubious technical claims can lead to a particular shared perception based on confirmation bias? That's my story. Because it strikes me as far more plausible than some undefined and immeasurable "qualities" of reproduction, that defies any kind of physical description. Ghosts and ESP fall in the same category: Lots of reports but precious little, in fact, no physical evidence to support their existence.
 

KSTR

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SoundStage report actually states that the analog input gives 8dB better performance than digital, which is consistent with what I said and overall points to the direction that this amp is being hurt by its bad DAC in all types of usages.
View attachment 169110

Better to identify here : https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...streaming-amplifier.28435/page-46#post-992401
The ~8dB difference is a rather benign wide-band analog noise difference, apart from the 60Hz peak in DAC (which is of no consequence as it is still below the analog noise floor).

As for the question which parts hurts which (using the soundstage plots):
- The DAC hurts the amp in best-case noise by 8dB
- The amp hurts the DAC in distortion, by at least 10dB
 

phion

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Better to identify here : https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...streaming-amplifier.28435/page-46#post-992401
The ~8dB difference is a rather benign wide-band analog noise difference, apart from the 60Hz peak in DAC (which is of no consequence as it is still below the analog noise floor).

As for the question which parts hurts which (using the soundstage plots):
- The DAC hurts the amp in best-case noise by 8dB
- The amp hurts the DAC in distortion, by at least 10dB
Ok, I better see the issue after reading the first post. I suppose there can be a DAC whose SINAD improves as one increases the input level beyond -11dBFS. I opened a bunch of past DAC reviews and looked at the same graphs for those and they mostly either flatten or actually get slightly worse. Is there a general pattern seen in practice?
 

AdamG

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Said this previously but it bears repeating. Are you reading a product review or a form of Infomercial? Does the Reviewer and or Publisher get Paid for their review? What and How are they Incentivized? How often if Ever do they publish a scathing negative review? Do your homework and understand what you are reading. Is it Truly neutral?

We know the answers to the above questions here at ASR are all No! No commercials, no endorsements, no incentives. I challenge you to find/discover another Audio Review Site that can say that. Most reviews out there are nothing but infomercials in disguise. Make your choice in whom to believe but, do it with both eyes open!
 

amper42

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It's interesting reading H95 comments by folks that I'm guessing don't have the Hegel H95? It might be very helpful if ASR integrated amp reviews included a listening test?

This morning I setup two systems and switched between them with the same music.
1. System 1 = Hegel H90 (prior version of H95) playing on BMR Monitors using USB input.
2. System 2 = RME ADI-2 DAC FS with 200W stereo amp playing on BMR Monitors using USB input.

I started playing both systems simultaneously with "101 Eastbound" from FourPlay. I simply mute the Hegel and unmute the ADI-2 DAC and visa versa to see if I could detect a tiny difference while sound level matched at 75dB. After doing this for an extended period I didn't hear a difference that would allow me to identify one system from the other.

If the H95 is as bad as some of the comments in this thread indicate I should be able to tell these two setups apart? Right? Once you complete this listening test you realize this thread is a lot of typing over nothing audible. In my book how my setup sounds is the final word. That doesn't seem to matter for many responses in this thread? :p:D:facepalm::D
 
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