Topping PA5 Review (Amplifier)

[bravomail]

Thx, Amir for a great review and thx Topping for a great product!
Now, what happens next and what do we (normal ppl) do?
If u have a spare $350 (or less, via Ali or some other venue) and u r afraid of current galloping inflation - here's ur good spend. U will enjoy an unbeatable sound for 1-2 years, until the competition catches up and/or better models will pop. U know, I did just that via Amazon, so if I don't like it, I can return.

As for teardown and implications - it could be TI TPA3255 (or another readily available chip) amp with "tweaks" and deep PFFB, so unless patented in US and Europe, could be easily "cloned". Easily meaning 1-2 years until commercially available from competition in a nice case, good quantities, low price etc.

What would I want from Topping as next iteration (from high to low priorities)
- remote volume control (and as a "free" bonus - electronically balanced outputs)
- subwoofer out, but then with proper high pass for speakers and low pass for sub - otherwise, pointless.
- RCA input - it will lower the requirements (I bought E50 just for balanced), avoid possible problems/ground loops/damage via thirdparty RCA-to-XLR cables
- really no need for LCD panel, more EMI, more cost, little functionality
- no need for any DAC or internal power supply - same reason: higher cost, EMI.
- no need for any additional power, ppl with exotic hard to drive speakers could use another device (which is incoming, no worries)
- DSP, or it could be a separate Topping ADC/DSP/DAC - it will drive higher costs and complexity, so I think a separate device is a good step towards it.
- bass/treble controls are superseeded by DSP, but some ppl use it, I always use "flat/NoEQ", much rather have a DSP for equalizing the speakers.

 

[Interference]

https://www.thomann.de/de/cordial_em_3_fv_elout ofements.htm
more like 3,5 to 10€
so less then 20€ in total

Although a bit more expensive, I can recommend the Cordial CPM series built with Cordial CMK 222 and Neutrik connectors. Very nice "premium" look and feel. I think 30 € of cables for an amp that goes into a ~1000-2000 € system are a reasonable expense. DIY is also an option but for a single pair of cables I'd say not worth the hassle

 

[Billy Budapest]

Most is too much of an arbitrary term to worth debating about. 50%+1? This amp has too low a gain and too little power for me. I'll leave it at that.

Agree!

 

[pma]

Another option (for those without requisite DIY skills (or time) would be to get this from AliExpress:

22.99US $ |DRV134 RCA Unbalanced To Balanced XLR Adaptor Converter DRV134 High Performance RCA to XLR Converter Preamp Audio Amplifier|Amplifier| - AliExpress

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

www.aliexpress.com

Or similar circuit in a finished product:

98.0US $ |Finished DRV134 Single ended to balance/unbalanced to balanced RCA to XLR preamp|unbalanced to balanced|xlr preampbalanced to unbalanced - AliExpress

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

www.aliexpress.com

Yes, but a small comment - DRV134 is quite (very) noisy by our high standards and will degrade PA5 noise performance to average or mediocre level. I know what I speak about.

 

[Lambda]

l. I think 30 € of cables for an amp that goes into a ~1000-2000 € system are a reasonable expense. DIY is also an option but for a single pair of cables I'd say not worth the hassle

I think i payed like 3-4€
I have boxes full with all sorts of cables i could need...

 

[pma]

There is a difference - they care about level to get full power. 2V is not enough (passive cable). However active converter as shown also makes 2V/4V gain.

 

[Fleuch]

Just to be sure:

1. Are TRS inputs regular 6.35 mm (1/4 inch) stereo female jacks? All the information I have been able to collect in this thread and elsewhere refers to TRS inputs but does not mention whether they are 6.35 mm / 3.5 mm or stereo / mono
2. What is the input voltage used in Amir's measurements? 0.5 V?

Making the assumption that Topping are consistent in using the same connectors in different products the TRS inputs regular 6.35 mm (1/4 inch) stereo female jacks

From the web page for the D10 Balanced DAC https://www.tpdz.net/productinfo/666141.html but please note that the list of "in the box" accessories for the E50 Multi-input DAC and PA5 Amplifier do not include the TRS / XLR adaptors - pity, really.

 

[pickyAudiophile]

Although a bit more expensive, I can recommend the Cordial CPM series built with Cordial CMK 222 and Neutrik connectors. Very nice "premium" look and feel. I think 30 € of cables for an amp that goes into a ~1000-2000 € system are a reasonable expense. DIY is also an option but for a single pair of cables I'd say not worth the hassle

Nice but....this is what I call "look and feel" kind of no b/s cable... https://www.adamhall.com/shop/us-en...cables/microphone-cables/3388/5-star-bfv-0050 , available from ~€16/channel (EU). For the ones going to give s/e sources a try, even though at "half throttle", one more solid recommendation: https://www.adamhall.com/shop/us-en...ables/other-audio-cables/3360/4-star-tpc-0060

 

[777]

And the input impedance is..... ?

 

[F1308]

Please, refrain from placing any liquids in close proximity to electrical equipment.

Making the assumption that Topping are consistent in using the same connectors in different products the TRS inputs regular 6.35 mm (1/4 inch) stereo female jacks

From the web page for the D10 Balanced DAC https://www.tpdz.net/productinfo/666141.html but please note that the list of "in the box" accessories for the E50 Multi-input DAC and PA5 Amplifier do not include the TRS / XLR adaptors - pity, really.

Please, refrain from placing any liquids in close proximity to electrical equipment.

 

[PeteL]

Making the assumption that Topping are consistent in using the same connectors in different products the TRS inputs regular 6.35 mm (1/4 inch) stereo female jacks

From the web page for the D10 Balanced DAC https://www.tpdz.net/productinfo/666141.html but please note that the list of "in the box" accessories for the E50 Multi-input DAC and PA5 Amplifier do not include the TRS / XLR adaptors - pity, really.

It's balanced... So not stereo... Not that it matters for the cable itself, you could use it for stereo unbalanced signal, but not really common outside of headphone jacks..

 

[pickyAudiophile]

It's balanced... So not stereo... Not that it matters for the cable itself, you could use it for stereo unbalanced signal, but not really common outside of headphone jacks..

Call me a fan boy (I have no affiliation with that brand), but I would give a s**t on Topping's OEM patch cables, since there are such beautiful no b/s alternatives available... https://www.adamhall.com/shop/us-en...bled-cables/patch-cables/3400/5-star-bvv-0050

 

[ModDIY]

Une autre option (pour ceux qui n'ont pas les compétences requises en matière de bricolage (ou le temps) serait de l'obtenir sur AliExpress :

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/328...9-12&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id":"12000021219600775"}

Ou circuit similaire dans un produit fini :

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/328...a2b4dba7-2&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id":"65152491463"}

Another option (for those without requisite DIY skills (or time) would be to get this from AliExpress:

22.99US $ |DRV134 RCA Unbalanced To Balanced XLR Adaptor Converter DRV134 High Performance RCA to XLR Converter Preamp Audio Amplifier|Amplifier| - AliExpress

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

www.aliexpress.com

Or similar circuit in a finished product:

98.0US $ |Finished DRV134 Single ended to balance/unbalanced to balanced RCA to XLR preamp|unbalanced to balanced|xlr preampbalanced to unbalanced - AliExpress

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

www.aliexpress.com

I have this one

Pre-Inverting/Unbalanced to Balanced Output/RCA to XLR/BTL Board | eBay

Les meilleures offres pour Pre-Inverting/Unbalanced to Balanced Output/RCA to XLR/BTL Board sont sur eBay ✓ Comparez les prix et les spécificités des produits neufs et d'occasion ✓ Pleins d'articles en livraison gratuite!

www.cafr.ebay.ca

Edit: I do not use this converter on the main amplifier.

 

[antcollinet]

Yes, but a small comment - DRV134 is quite (very) noisy by our high standards and will degrade PA5 noise performance to average or mediocre level. I know what I speak about.

Really? I looked it up based on the measurements here from @WolfX-700 which look pretty good:

Measurements of TransAudio（China）DRV134 RCA To XLR Adaptor Converter

www.audiosciencereview.com

Have I misinterpreted - or is there a problem with those measurements?

 

[xrk971]

Ok, let me spend $400 +time to learn the requisite knowledge to validate a DIY project. /s People spend money on things that work out of the box so they don't have to do that, lol.

Actually, for about $100 you can get a Focusrite Solo and REW software. I have a Howto thread on how to do it. Limitations will be the inherent distortion of the sound interface but getting 0.001% THD capability is quite easily achieved with modern mid-priced consumer equipment.

 

[Billy Budapest]

Nice but....this is what I call "look and feel" kind of no b/s cable... https://www.adamhall.com/shop/us-en...cables/microphone-cables/3388/5-star-bfv-0050 , available from ~€16/channel (EU). For the ones going to give s/e sources a try, even though at "half throttle", one more solid recommendation: https://www.adamhall.com/shop/us-en...ables/other-audio-cables/3360/4-star-tpc-0060

Those look fantastic. Can’t beat Neutrik connectors for durability.

 

[Madlop26]

Thx, Amir for a great review and thx Topping for a great product!
Now, what happens next and what do we (normal ppl) do?
If u have a spare $350 (or less, via Ali or some other venue) and u r afraid of current galloping inflation - here's ur good spend. U will enjoy an unbeatable sound for 1-2 years, until the competition catches up and/or better models will pop. U know, I did just that via Amazon, so if I don't like it, I can return.

As for teardown and implications - it could be TI TPA3255 (or another readily available chip) amp with "tweaks" and deep PFFB, so unless patented in US and Europe, could be easily "cloned". Easily meaning 1-2 years until commercially available from competition in a nice case, good quantities, low price etc.

What would I want from Topping as next iteration (from high to low priorities)
- remote volume control (and as a "free" bonus - electronically balanced outputs)
- subwoofer out, but then with proper high pass for speakers and low pass for sub - otherwise, pointless.
- RCA input - it will lower the requirements (I bought E50 just for balanced), avoid possible problems/ground loops/damage via thirdparty RCA-to-XLR cables
- really no need for LCD panel, more EMI, more cost, little functionality
- no need for any DAC or internal power supply - same reason: higher cost, EMI.
- no need for any additional power, ppl with exotic hard to drive speakers could use another device (which is incoming, no worries)
- DSP, or it could be a separate Topping ADC/DSP/DAC - it will drive higher costs and complexity, so I think a separate device is a good step towards it.
- bass/treble controls are superseeded by DSP, but some ppl use it, I always use "flat/NoEQ", much rather have a DSP for equalizing the speakers.

Yeah, almost shot the bullet for this one, but I need a sub out, and remote control at least, will wait for same quality topping integrated amp, hope comes sometime in the future

 

[Spocko]

Thx, Amir for a great review and thx Topping for a great product!
Now, what happens next and what do we (normal ppl) do?
If u have a spare $350 (or less, via Ali or some other venue) and u r afraid of current galloping inflation - here's ur good spend. U will enjoy an unbeatable sound for 1-2 years, until the competition catches up and/or better models will pop. U know, I did just that via Amazon, so if I don't like it, I can return.

As for teardown and implications - it could be TI TPA3255 (or another readily available chip) amp with "tweaks" and deep PFFB, so unless patented in US and Europe, could be easily "cloned". Easily meaning 1-2 years until commercially available from competition in a nice case, good quantities, low price etc.

What would I want from Topping as next iteration (from high to low priorities)
- remote volume control (and as a "free" bonus - electronically balanced outputs)
- subwoofer out, but then with proper high pass for speakers and low pass for sub - otherwise, pointless.
- RCA input - it will lower the requirements (I bought E50 just for balanced), avoid possible problems/ground loops/damage via thirdparty RCA-to-XLR cables
- really no need for LCD panel, more EMI, more cost, little functionality
- no need for any DAC or internal power supply - same reason: higher cost, EMI.
- no need for any additional power, ppl with exotic hard to drive speakers could use another device (which is incoming, no worries)
- DSP, or it could be a separate Topping ADC/DSP/DAC - it will drive higher costs and complexity, so I think a separate device is a good step towards it.
- bass/treble controls are superseeded by DSP, but some ppl use it, I always use "flat/NoEQ", much rather have a DSP for equalizing the speakers.

License the DSP from Dirac and call it a day. Get rid of MQA altogether. Improve the volume knob to something large, tactile and iconic that would generate envy from non-audiophiles and you'll have an international hit on your hands.

 

[JRS]

Don't you think "overall perception" is a priceless outboard feature common to anything you could put your own hands on ?

Ok it is very impressive in terms of measurement but does it sounds good ?
It is not because it is technically very impressive that in terms of musicality it will do the job, no ?

So I suspect that measurements alone don't sufficiently reassure you that it will sound good. I haven't heard it--it's a recent release and will take some time to make the rounds among the reviewers. I have been hanging around audio long enough that I can assure it will receive very good reviews. They will talk about an exceedingly solid choice at that particular price point, but is falls short of ultimate transparency, that requiring much. much more money. If they are smart, they will latch on to the misbehavior at high frequencies and will launch into a sermon about how this can lead to a certain edginess bordering on stridency with some recordings and when used with incompatible stable mates--those being the preamp or DAC of questionable pedigree.

And be assured also that misgivings will be expressed re the unusual input jack requirements that serve noone except the manufacturer who happens to use the same "quirky" cabling with the insinuation that it is coercive, and no truly reputable manufacturer would hamstring a buyer this way. This of course would completely overlook the almost preamp like functionality this ability to select from inputs provide.

In the end, they will have induced a case of audiophile nervosa, and the faint of heart will graze elsewhere. So prior to reading any reviews, understand the cabing is a nonissue (given the great price) but if using an unbalanced source, make certain it will swing 2.5 volts. Also acquaint yourself with the audibility of distortion at the frequencies affected here. Does it matter if it has 0.002% ? Good heavens no, but if there is any chink in the armor, this would be it.

Finally, you could always just take the plunge. I'm pretty sure Topping has a 30 day no hassle return. If not, buy it through Amazon. But bear in mind you'll have to trust your own ears. Also ear in mind that they, and not someone elses, should be the ultimate arbiter in any buying decision. Comes right down to these wizard/gurus can likely spot FR anomalies with greater precision than an untrained listener, but all the rest is just a fat bald guy behind the curtain pulling crap out of his own not so resplendent ass.

 

[amirm]

Ok it is very impressive in terms of measurement but does it sounds good ?

I reported my listening test results. It sounds superb.