Hegel H95 Review (Streaming Amplifier)

[watchnerd]

What other amp was with ahb2 ?

It was before the AHB2 existed.

 

[Lambda]

consumers did not like to have the volume control at “98” to play loud

You increases the Gain but not the power so your customers think there amp is more powerful and they have lots of headroom because they only have to turn it up to "50%" even thought.
(halve?) oft the volume range is not usable without the risk of clipping for an 0dbFS signal?

Again what volume level is the maximum vol level i can turn the amp up to before it starts clipping at 0dBFS?

So your compromising your design and show misleading volume numbers* to your customers just because they don't like to turn up the volume to play loud?

*you never said the volume is in % and everyone knows% would not make sense...
(so BTW. why not uses dB?!)
But the average customers thinks this is % so if 100% can’t be reached without clipping this is almost fraudulent to me

 

[Geert]

This is your personal opinion.

No it's not, yours is. You'll find hundreds of references on the Internet that describe this standard, and hundreds of pro level devices with a -10dB switch with the manual that describes its purpose is to support consumer grade line level connections.

And I know preamp nowadays output 2V, I didn deny that. But that doesn't automatically makes it a standard for all types of analog connetions and it doesn't mean designers are forced to implement it. If that would be the case than please first start a legal case against Naim for using DIN connectors.

 

[Koeitje]

So you will cascade two preamplifiers and two volume controls?

If you put the first at -0dB I doubt it matters.

 

[AdamG]

One more thing that I forgot. Yesterday we linked to Paul Millers (HiFi News) lab report in our post #101. His results looked more like our own. We were obviously not the first as it was presented earlier in post #59, and then @amirm dismissed Paul in post #62 insinuating he was a “has been” and asked how Paul could be satisfied with 86dB signal to noise ratio. First of all, Paul wasn’t happy with 86dB. He was happy with 100,9dB, if you look closer. Second, Paul is an expert at measuring with 40 years of experience and one of the few in this industry who has actually designed and built high performance measurement equipment.

I just want to Thank Hegel for joining ASR and providing their POV and explanation. To begin a dialog with ASR demonstrates some amount of interest in possibly driving product/specification improvements. A great first step to engage the ASR community. Bravo for making the effort.

 

[aj625]

It was before the AHB2 existed.

So why you commented about ahb2 ?

 

[watchnerd]

So why you commented about ahb2 ?

???

I didn't comment about the AHB2.

 

[sarumbear]

If you put the first at -0dB I doubt it matters.

You do realise that when you put the Hegel on 100 the line outputs distort!

 

[Koeitje]

You do realise that when you put the Hegel on 100 the line outputs distort!

True, but a properly designed amplifier it would work just fine .

I find it odd they don't just limit the voltage for the line-out/pre-out. If you know it will distort like crazy above a certain level you must stop owners from doing so.

 

[KSTR]

No it's not, yours is. You'll find hundreds of references on the Internet that describe this standard, and hundreds of pro level devices with a -10dB switch with the manual that describes its purpose is to support consumer grade line level connections.

The -10dBV is a nominal operation level setting, including a 16dB headroom before clipping or other degradation. Same for the studio level of +4dBu, there's also 20dB of required headroom on this.

So the convention is that your source shall be able to output roughly -10dBV on average with normal music program, and normal here means DR16 recordings, which we don't have anymore.

 

[sarumbear]

No it's not, yours is. You'll find hundreds of references on the Internet that describe this standard, and hundreds of pro level devices with a -10dB switch with the manual that describes its purpose is to support consumer grade line level connections.

Correct. However, a line level output to be distorting with increasing level is not something a consumer will expect. When there is a volume controlled output on an integrated amplifier (i.e. it is not suitable for recorders) the logical thing is to expect them to be plugged to another amplifier or an amplified speaker like a subwoofer. The fact is, the output will distort when the volume is above a certain level. Not clip mind you, simply distort. How on earth a consumer can find that out?

 

[sarumbear]

The -10dBV is a nominal operation level setting, including a 16dB headroom before clipping or other degradation. Same for the studio level of +4dBu, there's also 20dB of required headroom on this.

So the convention is that your source shall be able to output roughly -10dBV on average with normal music program, and normal here means DR16 recordings, which we don't have anymore.

"16dB headroom before clipping or other degradation" of a -10dBV nominal input means until you reach 6dBV everything should be tickety-boo.

6dBV is 2V, which is the level @amirm measured the amplifier. Which is level that the manufacturer said their amplifier cannot produce. In short Hegel amplifier has less than 16dB headroom, but they are not specifying anything technical like that. All they say is it sounds great...

 

[Lambda]

I find it odd they don't just limit the voltage for the line-out/pre-out. If you know it will distort like crazy above a certain level you must stop owners from doing so.

They basically said:
"The our customer is to stupid to turn the volume all the way up if the want maximum power so we made it the way that halve volume is full volume and the other halve is unlabeled Garbage but it makes the customers felle better because they think the amp has more headroom than it actually has"

. The fact is, the output will distort when the volume is above a certain level. Not clip mind you, simply distort. How on earth a consumer can find that out?

And this will happen before the output level is equal to the input level!
So from an analog source you cant send 0dB to your active sub without distortion.

 

[KSTR]

I totally disagree! He is doing a stellar job. He is open and transparent. If a device is not up to standard that "he" expects, he says it as "he" feels like it. A manufacturer have the same rights as any member and like me and you, they can reply.

You are mistaking ASR with an industry forum. It is not. It is a consumer forum and @amirm is the consumer advocate. It is up to the manufacturers to prove him wrong.

I do applaud to Amir for what he does here for the community just like anyone else. It's not about openess or transparency or whatever, it about presenting correct results and interpretations, correct to best effort (aka with a thorough investigation when called for). And I see this effort is not there sometimes when it should be.

 

[KSTR]

"16dB headroom before clipping or other degradation" of a -10dBV nominal input means until you reach 6dBV everything should be tickety-boo.

6dBV is 2V, which is the level @amirm measured the amplifier. Which is level that the manufacturer said their amplifier cannot produce. In short Hegel amplifier has less than 16dB headroom, but they are not specifying anything technical like that. All they say is it sounds great...

Your confusing input and output here.

 

[sarumbear]

I do applaud to Amir for what he does here for the community just like anyone else. It's not about openess or transparency or whatever, it about presenting correct results and interpretations, correct to best effort (aka with a thorough investigation when called for). And I see this effort is not there sometimes when it should be.

I beg to differ.

 

[sarumbear]

Your confusing input and output here.

I am talking about the output. If the nominal level of the line outputs is -10dBV then the maximum un-degraded level should be 2V. Where am I confused?

 

[Geert]

The -10dBV is a nominal operation level setting, including a 16dB headroom before clipping or other degradation. Same for the studio level of +4dBu, there's also 20dB of required headroom on this.

So the convention is that your source shall be able to output roughly -10dBV on average with normal music program, and normal here means DR16 recordings, which we don't have anymore.

Exactly the explanation I gave myself 18 pages ago https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-review-streaming-amplifier.28435/post-987130.

 

[KSTR]

View attachment 168201

This explaines everything we needed to know.
You should include such a block diagram in the product documentation and provide much more complete specs... as you actually have them anyway.

As I said, the days of blunt marketing are over, users want know what's going on, precisely. In this case, it would have totally prevented the chaos which unfolded here.

 

[Chagall]

So even if some measurements may be a bit below SOTA, the whole package can still make sense, but you won't find any of that detail in a review here.

Exactly how Amir stated in conclusion of many other products. Maybe this product just doesn't cut it.

2x4HD review
Conclusions
As a core audio platform, the miniDSP 2x4HD has OK performance. It has no glaring faults but also doesn't match the best-in-class products either. Seeing how this functionality is part of the larger DSP platform and that component can add noise of its own, this is to be expected. Personally I wish there was a plus version that had better execution on DAC side.

As it is, you would be compromising some performance to gain the benefits of its equalization. That technology if well implement, can make significant improvements to sound reproduction in your room so in balance you will come out way ahead.

Nad M33
Conclusions
There is a lot of good news and some bad news in review of NAD M33. As an integrated product it shows for the first time that quality does not need to be compromised. Performance across the board beats any integrated product like an AVR or even AV Processor on DAC performance. For the first time, we don't have to apologize or make excuses.

If you were however expecting the pure performance of best in class stereo DAC and Purifi amplification you would be disappointed. We can get SINAD of 120 dB in desktop DACs and Purifi performance of 98 dB. And at much lower prices but you would have add a streamer of sorts. And none will have the pretty UI of the NAD M33. And you would have to find one where you can use Dirac (e.g. a PC platform).

As compared to an AVR, the M33 is a home run albeit at much higher price and with just two channels.

All in all, NAD shows the path to superb performance in integrated products. It however stops a bit short of what it could be.

Overall, I am happy to recommend the NAD M33. Just miss the bit of performance it left on the table.