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Kicker Key 180.4 Review (DSP Car Amplifier)

JRS

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At least in my area, there were very few youth interested in the sound quality aspect. They were all into boom. The SQ guys were mostly in their 30s and 40s.
They definitely had more $$. I'm just going by my guy's (who was late 20's and had a Nat'l reputation) clientele, and the magazine features. Course it was an up and coming bedroom community south of Denver. I suspect if I had shopped elsewhere, demographic would have been different. In any event, it was a technological tour de force while it lasted. I sure liked the Focal/Soundstream/Pioneed Head linked to CD changer/Audiocontrol system we put together--made my frequent drives from Pueblo to Denver much more enjoyable, and bounds beyond the 6 x 9 crap when I went to HS. FWIW the stuff I hear in ABQ these days is all thump and bump hump. Gotta wonder how many bolts are being loosened, and loose screws to begin with.
 

617

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No listening tests with the Salons = bullshit review
 

GXAlan

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Was actually thinking of one of these DSP amps for my kid's car... anyone know of any that'll actually be worth it?

I agree, Yuck!

In the JL Audio thread I posted some in measurements from the Audiotec Fischer line. Not cheap but it does work in my BMW as advertised. (Time Correction, parametric EQ, volume dependent bass boost that is configurable and defeatable).
 

pseudoid

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Dan Dagostino monoblock amplifier.
Are you certain that Dan's amp can run on 12Vdc?:oops:
I think using some of the ASR reviewed mini-amps be better suited for automotive use.
Even if they fry due to vehicle environmental effects; it probably will be about the time that you will be swapping your ride for an EV, anyways!
 

MJG

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I’m curious about how Audiotec-Fischer’s Helix series measures up. A Helix V Eight MK2 or V Twelve. They’ve got a reputation as the best DSP/Amp combo available for car audio.
 

GWolfman

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In the JL Audio thread I posted some in measurements from the Audiotec Fischer line. Not cheap but it does work in my BMW as advertised. (Time Correction, parametric EQ, volume dependent bass boost that is configurable and defeatable).
Awesome. I'll add it to my reading list.

Thanks!
 

PeteL

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Or for a sub which will double the distortion anyway. Actually it's a pity, because the concept of DIY DSP amplification for a car is nice. Probably too good to be true in this price category.
You are not gonna produce much Sub bass with 45 Watts
 

pseudoid

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Adding
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= Warning Point Assessment?
 

JohnBooty

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Yep. I hated it. The rise of SPL and the waning interest in SQ is what caused me to lose interest in car audio competition.
I'm actually rather shocked to hear that car audio competition ever was about SQ! Would love to hear more about that.
 

digicidal

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I'm actually rather shocked to hear that car audio competition ever was about SQ! Would love to hear more about that.
This. I've seen plenty of vehicles turned into rolling sub enclosures with a small cutout for someone to drive it to the show... but I can't remember seeing the guy that was proudly displaying his ruler-flat FR charts and discussing how much effort went into damping the modes that were the most unruly. Seemed like half of the guys basically have a frequency response of 10Hz to 60Hz... and anything higher than that is just panel vibrations. ;)
 

Gatordaddy

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While clearly a wealthy guy, didn't get the sense that he was anything approximating an audiophile and the way he talked about his products from an engineering sense was more about power and fitment than finesse. The fact that this measures so poor does not surprise me.

To be fair, fitment goes a long way in car audio.
 

Gatordaddy

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Yeah. Even with the mic/DSP, I don't think it's worth the trouble.

Reports on DIYMA are that the auto EQ does a great job. While the amp performance of the kicker is so poor i wouldn't consider it, I think a competent auto equalization feature is the most important feature to make a car sound good (unless you are a very competent tuner or are willing to pay a very competent tuner).
 

Walter

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I'm actually rather shocked to hear that car audio competition ever was about SQ! Would love to hear more about that.
Apparently it still goes on in Europe: https://www.sonarworks.com/soundid-reference/blog/product-news/car-audio-gurus-schooled-by-dsp/

Process under IASCA in USA was similar. All evaluation (and tuning) was subjective, at least as far as I know. The rec.audio.car newsgroup was the main online discussion forum. You could sometimes identify members by their homemade Team RAC stickers and t-shirts at the shows. It was a pretty helpful and tight knit community, but it splintered when the Web gained popularity.

"Our" car used active crossovers, time alignment, and PEQ, all tuned by math, ear, and TS parameters. If we'd had access to a measurement system and knowledge of the Harman curve, we would have certainly used it, and probably dominated the scene.
 

wwenze

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Or for a sub which will double the distortion anyway. Actually it's a pity, because the concept of DIY DSP amplification for a car is nice. Probably too good to be true in this price category.
With cars containing the equivalent of a Windows computer you'd think we can have EqualizerAPO or something
 

KaMiKaZeCATS

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In the kind of cars that this would be installed in I think this is relatively good performance!

When somone bragging how thumpin there 4 x 12 inch subs are in thier 99 civic. They are actually getting 0.1% SINAD. That's pretty good considering the car audio market thinks *CHEAP PLASTIC RATTLING NOISES* = "THAT'S SICK BRUV" .

There signal to noise ratio ain't that high in the first place. at least they ain't getting complete and utter garbage. Eg 10% distortion. Which is completely normal in the world of car audio....
 

DavidK442

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After abandoning car audio for 25 years, at age 50 I decided to install a serious SQ system in my daily driver. (Never into the “boom”, even as a teen.) I sound deadened the doors, built custom A-pillar pods for an active 3-way front end, time alignment and 10 bands of PEq for each driver and countless hours of tuning with a calibrated mic and Room EQ Wizard software. I am extremely happy with the end result even though budget gear from JVC, Dayton and MTX was used. After reading this Kicker amp review I shudder to think how my system would measure, all daisy chained together. Sometimes ignorance is bliss.
 
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thunderchicken

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I'm not upset at the performance- it's a space constrained amplifier made for motorcycles. Sound quality wasn't really a factor. Reliability in a high-vibration environment, moisture resistance, and ability to operate on wildly varying subpar power sources were the other main design goals. Doing that at such a low cost (Kicker is a budget mobile brand) is amazing. Other brands are better known for SQ whether deserved or not.
 

Gatordaddy

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I'm actually rather shocked to hear that car audio competition ever was about SQ! Would love to hear more about that.

I believe IASCA is the most active in the US.

It's not particularly surprising to me. I spend a lot of time in my truck between driving and writing reports. My "mild" SQ build sounds better than my Revel M16 and Rythmik subwoofer in my home theater (before room correction), but it also cost much more and now has me chasing a parasitic draw. DSPs have both raised the floor (in OEM installations) and raised the ceiling on how vehicles can sound.
 

brandall10

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I believe IASCA is the most active in the US.

It's not particularly surprising to me. I spend a lot of time in my truck between driving and writing reports. My "mild" SQ build sounds better than my Revel M16 and Rythmik subwoofer in my home theater (before room correction), but it also cost much more and now has me chasing a parasitic draw. DSPs have both raised the floor (in OEM installations) and raised the ceiling on how vehicles can sound.

Wow. I briefly dabbled in car audio early in my audio journey but just decided an automobile is a terrible environment for SQ and it's a lost cause.

Has DSP paved the way for cost effective solutions for a custom install, say in the $2k area that are actually worthwhile?
 

Gatordaddy

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Wow. I briefly dabbled in car audio early in my audio journey but just decided an automobile is a terrible environment for SQ and it's a lost cause.

Has DSP paved the way for cost effective solutions for a custom install, say in the $2k area that are actually worthwhile?
That's about where my system came in at. So yes. The minidsp dirac live unit, even though being a pain in the ass work environment, does all the heavy lifting for front state imaging and tonality. In the way it does "black box magic" that changes dramatically from one measurement set to the other it reminds me a lot of the MS-8.

I'm sure people get as good or better tunes out of the dayton audio or helix DSPs if they're skilled enough at tuning.
 
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