Car Audio Subforum?

[Gatordaddy]

I'm wondering if there is enough interest in the community for a car audio subforum, or if members here have advice for a place for car audio measurements/analysis. Asking because DIYMA (though providing a wealth of information) seems pretty quiet besides for their for sale section.

Car audio still seems like the wild west when it comes to specification claims and tuning methodology, even though sound quality is probably higher than ever before.

 

[617]

I'm wondering if there is enough interest in the community for a car audio subforum, or if members here have advice for a place for car audio measurements/analysis. Asking because DIYMA (though providing a wealth of information) seems pretty quiet besides for their for sale section.

Car audio still seems like the wild west when it comes to specification claims and tuning methodology, even though sound quality is probably higher than ever before.

Do you have any research on the topic?

Not a personal interest of mine but I'm curious if there any industry publications about it.

 

[Gatordaddy]

Do you have any research on the topic?

Not a personal interest of mine but I'm curious if there any industry publications about it.

I don't--I'm spoiled by this forum and the knowledgable folks here having read the papers. I suppose I was hoping to find at the least a place that could share or link to objective driver and amplifier measurements besides the few units Amir and Erin had spent the trouble of going through. For instance: i've never seen a 12V amplifier manufacturer publish Audio Precision test results.

Room acoustics for a car is a pretty interesting topic though. I just completed a build that when tuned to the Harman curve sounded unbearably treble heavy.

 

[Doodski]

I remember @amirm tested a car amp I think it was and he said it was fun as he showed off his snazzy new DC power supply system. Perhaps @amirm is a good place to start with, "Is mobile/car audio going anywhere at ASR?"

 

[617]

The acoustic issues are fascinating since cars represent a middle ground acoustically between speakers and headphones. Listeners somewhat fixed in space, but not totally. Listeners off center.

See if you can pull up any papers on the subject it could be an interesting discussion.

As far as products to test, car electronics aren't that interesting, maybe the amps or dsp system, but minidsp is used in car audio pretty commonly I'd expect.

I think any level of customized car audio is considered 'low class' by audiophiles, and although this is partly prejudicial, it may also be due to the fact that installed car audio systems have gotten a lot better with the advent of things like class d amps, neodymium tweeters and cheap dsp.

I know Erin is or used to be in car audio and has tested drivers in the past.

What I'd like to see is a methodology for measuring and ranking manufacturer car audio systems.

 

[preload]

I don't--I'm spoiled by this forum and the knowledgable folks here having read the papers. I suppose I was hoping to find at the least a place that could share or link to objective driver and amplifier measurements besides the few units Amir and Erin had spent the trouble of going through. For instance: i've never seen a 12V amplifier manufacturer publish Audio Precision test results.

Room acoustics for a car is a pretty interesting topic though. I just completed a build that when tuned to the Harman curve sounded unbearably treble heavy.

Have you seen the audiofrog tuning guide?

 

[Jdunk54nl]

Car audio junkies is about the best for technical information, but no one is measuring anything over there.

 

[bloodshoteyed]

car audio has been all but dead for the last few years, reasons being too complicated oem installs (can't remember a single car in the last few years with a double/din shaft), even the manufacturers stopped most of their r&d (like i.e. blaupunkt being sold off, throwing out rebranded low-end home-use stuff now)
you can still find plug&play stuff from some rare manufacturers atm, but the prices are off the charts for most of the people that used to be in the hobby

 

[Gatordaddy]

The acoustic issues are fascinating since cars represent a middle ground acoustically between speakers and headphones. Listeners somewhat fixed in space, but not totally. Listeners off center.

See if you can pull up any papers on the subject it could be an interesting discussion.

As far as products to test, car electronics aren't that interesting, maybe the amps or dsp system, but minidsp is used in car audio pretty commonly I'd expect.

I think any level of customized car audio is considered 'low class' by audiophiles, and although this is partly prejudicial, it may also be due to the fact that installed car audio systems have gotten a lot better with the advent of things like class d amps, neodymium tweeters and cheap dsp.

I know Erin is or used to be in car audio and has tested drivers in the past.

What I'd like to see is a methodology for measuring and ranking manufacturer car audio systems.

While that would be interesting, i think the consensus on car audio enthusiast sites is that even a modest two channel + sub system will sound better than even the highest end OEM system. Imho, there are three things the OEMs really nail: electronics noise, the radio tuner, and headunit usability and reliability. Between those last three I probably won't ever be replacing a headunit that has carplay again unless it were impossible to get a proper signal out of it.

While my 2017 f150 sony system was much better than my 2006 honda accord, the relatively modest 2 channel system I put in it (in stock locations with a behind seat subwoofer) blows it out of the water besides for some tweeter noise i need to isolate and fix. When newer models become more available i'll have to demo a truck that has a top end Harman system to compare but i'm not going to hold my breath.

The electronics reviews really interest me since there basically aren't measurements for car amplifiers besides for the two tested here as well as "dynos". The Dual tested here on ASR seems a lot better designed than most car amplifiers. Many people swear by Helix and Mosconi's offerings but they don't have spec sheets available with them, and i don't have a whole lot of faith in anything manufacturers claim.

 

[Gatordaddy]

Have you seen the audiofrog tuning guide?

It's a great resource. I think the main issue with the tuning guide is the target curve. In my sedan the harman curve sounded perfect. In the truck with stock speaker locations the target curve sounded like nails on a chalkboard. I've had a good amount of luck with DIYMA's (sort of) consensus with Dirac Live. Do a couple of PEQ adjustments and let dirac calculate the speaker delays then mix them together for a 2 channel tune and let Dirac do its thing by loading different curves and comparing. Adjust center with 2ch fade adjustment

 

[Gatordaddy]

car audio has been all but dead for the last few years, reasons being too complicated oem installs (can't remember a single car in the last few years with a double/din shaft), even the manufacturers stopped most of their r&d (like i.e. blaupunkt being sold off, throwing out rebranded low-end home-use stuff now)
you can still find plug&play stuff from some rare manufacturers atm, but the prices are off the charts for most of the people that used to be in the hobby

It's definitely more difficult to build a nice system than it was for pre 2000s cars. With the number of devices that can give a clean 2ch system from the databus, i think it's evened out a bit. I think a major factor is conveinence. Carplay and Android Auto are a must now (at least for me). In my 2006 Accord I had to run an aftermarket HVAC adapter to get a carplay headunit which was a huge PITA and never functioned very well.

OTOH the new DSPs from Minidsp and Helix seem like legitimate game changers

 

[Zedly]

As far as OEM, are the premium audio systems offered by automakers worth it? For example, JBL's systems for Toyota: https://www.jbl.com/toyota.html

 

[Jdunk54nl]

As far as OEM, are the premium audio systems offered by automakers worth it? For example, JBL's systems for Toyota: https://www.jbl.com/toyota.html

Usually not, but oddly, the premium are easier to upgrade aftermarket due to third party devices (pac amp pros, navtv, etc) being able to intercept the signals sent to the upgraded amps.

 

[Chrise36]

While that would be interesting, i think the consensus on car audio enthusiast sites is that even a modest two channel + sub system will sound better than even the highest end OEM system. Imho, there are three things the OEMs really nail: electronics noise, the radio tuner, and headunit usability and reliability. Between those last three I probably won't ever be replacing a headunit that has carplay again unless it were impossible to get a proper signal out of it.

While my 2017 f150 sony system was much better than my 2006 honda accord, the relatively modest 2 channel system I put in it (in stock locations with a behind seat subwoofer) blows it out of the water besides for some tweeter noise i need to isolate and fix. When newer models become more available i'll have to demo a truck that has a top end Harman system to compare but i'm not going to hold my breath.

The electronics reviews really interest me since there basically aren't measurements for car amplifiers besides for the two tested here as well as "dynos". The Dual tested here on ASR seems a lot better designed than most car amplifiers. Many people swear by Helix and Mosconi's offerings but they don't have spec sheets available with them, and i don't have a whole lot of faith in anything manufacturers claim.

This german site does testing:

Die Bestenliste der HiFi In-Car 4 Kanal Endstufe | hifitest.de

Entdecken Sie jetzt unsere Bestenliste der 4 Kanal Endstufe inklusive Testsieger. ✔️ Hier die Testberichte durchlesen und den besten Auto Verstärker finden!

mobil.hifitest.de

 

[Ron Texas]

I rather listen to my 6.2 L Chevy V8, especially when the exhaust bypass valves activate.

 

[Gatordaddy]

Usually not, but oddly, the premium are easier to upgrade aftermarket due to third party devices (pac amp pros, navtv, etc) being able to intercept the signals sent to the upgraded amps.

I think it really depends on the manufacturer and specific system. There are a bunch of people with Toyotas that have been going with Chinese Android head units because it’s impossible to get a proper full range signal our of newer Toyotas (not sure which package).

I think the answer is typically: if you are going with an aftermarket system get the least expensive OEM system that has decent head unit features so long as it’s supported by PAC or some other respected integrator. Scosche and Metra are both worthless. iDatalink has pretty mixed reviews. If getting a base model it’s probably going to be easier to drop in an aftermarket head unit but those units are often much harder to live with than what would of come factory.

If you don’t plan on modifying your car stereo then get the nicest package you’re comfortable with optioning. Just don’t expect much in return for the investment.

 

[Gatordaddy]

I rather listen to my 6.2 L Chevy V8, especially when the exhaust bypass valves activate.

Horses for courses. I spend a lot of time in my truck writing inspection reports and the previous owners’ straight pipe exhaust got old pretty quick.

 

[Ron Texas]

Horses for courses. I spend a lot of time in my truck writing inspection reports and the previous owners’ straight pipe exhaust got old pretty quick.

It's the stock performance exhaust. The function is controllable from quiet to track.

 

[amirm]

Fyi I have two car amplifiers to test....

 

[617]

How does audio modification affect resale value? Seems harder to justify spending something you're going to sell. Restoring to stock could be a PITA.