ABX test Vinyl vs CD can you hear a difference?

[levimax]

There are many threads past and present regarding some aspect of listening to vinyl. These threads always seem to devolve into claims of how terrible vinyl measures and sounds verses those that say while vinyl may measure poorly it can sound good and due to other factors (nostalgia, artwork, mastering style, fun, etc.) is worthy of a place in a modern Hi-Fi system.

Below is a link to 7 pairs of files marked version A and version B, one of the pair is a 30 second needle drop from an original pressing of the LP, and one is the same from the original CD. The files are time aligned and level matched so they can easily be compared, preferably in foobar2000 ABX, but even if you don’t have access to ABX software, they should give a fair comparison

This will give people reading these threads and seeing the wildly contradictory claims regarding sound quality but never having heard vinyl on their systems to hear what the fuss is all about. It will also give those making claims of “terrible”, “great”, “mastering difference”, etc. a chance to back up their assertions. Hopefully everyone will learn something and have fun.

The signal chain for the needle drops is a Technics SL 1300 (automatic version of the SL 1200), AT33PTG2 cart, DIY SUT, DIY balanced transmitter, Steinberg UR22 MK2 ADC, captured with Audacity with Audacity doing the RIAA conversion.

I think it would be interesting if people that listen to these pairs of files could answer the following questions:

• Can you hear a difference? If yes, do you have an ABX log?
• If you can hear a difference which version is the LP and which ones is the CD?
• If you can hear a difference which version do you prefer?

I will post which file is which as well as the details of the LP pressings and CD version in about week depending on how much if any response this thread generates. Have fun.

Box app.box.com

 

[Pdxwayne]

There are issues with this comparison. Do you know if the mastering are the same for both LP and CD for all songs? Also, I just tried black_cow and the LP surface noise is obvious for B.....

 

[levimax]

There are issues with this comparison. Do you know if the mastering are the same for both LP and CD for all songs? Also, I just tried black_cow and the LP surface noise is obvious for B.....

No one knows for sure if the mastering's are the same or not (probably not) but these are a range of original pressings vs original CD's so I think people can get an idea of what and how much difference there is between CD's and Vinyl especially if they have never really compared before. All the LP's are original pressings and 3 are noisier than I would like but they do represent "famous" mastering's so I used them anyway.... also I don't want to disappoint the anti "snap crackle pop" members.

 

[danadam]

Someone was heavy-handed with low pass filter on "Cry Me A River":

Spoiler: Cry Me A River FFT

This makes claims about digital harshness that much funnier

 

[Blumlein 88]

Nice little test. Using AKG 371 phones powered by RME Babyface I scored 7 of 10 on all of them except one was 6 of 10. So does this mean collectively I hear a difference? Individually I don't make the 5% cut. Over 60 samples I do however. 41 of 60 choices would be over the 5% threshold.

I must say I am surprised this isn't more obvious.

EDIT to ADD, I didn't abx Cry me a River as the surface noise and other issues were too obvious.

 

[levimax]

Someone was heavy-handed with low pass filter on "Cry Me A River":

Spoiler: Cry Me A River FFT

View attachment 160573

This makes claims about digital harshness that much funnier

Believe it or not there are worse digital versions of this Julie London song. Not sure what happened to the master tapes but apparently they did not make it to the digital era. I included this as an interesting contrast to which sounds "worse" pop's and clicks from the original LP's or a "no noise" processed rolled off CD. I know what I prefer.

 

[Dogen]

I think an interesting and informative test would be to record Vinyl to digital and see if anyone can tell the difference. The claim is that digital can’t sound as good a vinyl. If you can get vinyl-equivalent sound in digital, there is no need for vinyl. Plus, this removes any issue of finding matching mastering.

I’ve done this many times, and to me there’s no difference at all.

 

[Pdxwayne]

Nice little test. Using AKG 371 phones powered by RME Babyface I scored 7 of 10 on all of them except one was 6 of 10. So does this mean collectively I hear a difference? Individually I don't make the 5% cut. Over 60 samples I do however. 41 of 60 choices would be over the 5% threshold.

I must say I am surprised this isn't more obvious.

EDIT to ADD, I didn't abx Cry me a River as the surface noise and other issues were too obvious.

What, I am disappointed with your sensitivity!

Black Cow was so obvious. Chain is Topping E30, Topping L30, and also AKG 371.

 

[Blumlein 88]

What, I am disappointed with your sensitivity!

Black Cow was so obvious. Chain is Topping E30, Topping L30, and also AKG 371.

View attachment 160621

Well I did these a little different. Rather than try and find the most telling 2 seconds, which is what I normally do, I listened to most of each cut each time. Maybe I could do better using the narrowed to a couple of seconds method, but just as a more casual listen I'm afraid I have nothing to brag about. I'm a tin ear.

 

[Pdxwayne]

Well I did these a little different. Rather than try and find the most telling 2 seconds, which is what I normally do, I listened to most of each cut each time. Maybe I could do better using the narrowed to a couple of seconds method, but just as a more casual listen I'm afraid I have nothing to brag about. I'm a tin ear.

I just listen for LP surface noise. Too obvious.

 

[Pdxwayne]

Brown sugar: I prefer #1 as it sounds brighter. #2 a bit too dull.

 

[Pdxwayne]

Something in the way she moves: I prefer #1. I don't like lp surface noise in #2. That's is all I am going to do for today.

 

[abdo123]

I’m astonished that someone actually made a thread about this. Yet again indeed someone might have not heard vinyl at all.

 

[pma]

I’m astonished that someone actually made a thread about this. Yet again indeed someone might have not heard vinyl at all.

I made a similar test few years ago, however properly done regarding technical part. There are necessary conditions to be fulfilled for such test to be meaningful:

1) you must be sure that the vinyl and digital master are the same
2) perfect level and time matching is a must
3) no pops and clicks

It is difficult but not impossible. Even (2) can be fulfilled with a quartz driven direct drive like Technics SL1200.
If I dig out the files, will you participate and post your ABX result??

 

[abdo123]

I made a similar test few years ago, however properly done regarding technical part. There are necessary conditions to be fulfilled for such test to be meaningful:

1) you must be sure that the vinyl and digital master are the same
2) perfect level and time matching is a must
3) no pops and clicks

It is difficult but not impossible. Even (2) can be fulfilled with a quartz driven direct drive like Technics SL1200.
If I dig out the files, will you participate and post your ABX result??

I think you’re missing one more important thing, a stylus with a flat frequency response.

I have few new records (no clicks and pops) and my LP system Is fairly flat. Maybe I can make similar files for people?

 

[pma]

I think you’re missing one more important thing, a stylus with a flat frequency response.

I have few new records (no clicks and pops) and my LP system Is fairly flat. Maybe I can make similar files for people?

Shall I post the test files here or into a new thread? This is a DW pk metrics result, SW by @pkane

OK I decided for a new thread

One more Vinyl rip x digital data ABX listening test

The test files are here: http://pmacura.cz/alaba.zip It is a vinyl rip file and the same master in digital data. Time and level aligned as much as possible. If you are interested, please listen to the files and post your ABX result and try to play fair, it means please listen under normal...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[restorer-john]

 

[mhardy6647]

N740AX (ABXAir) by Reinhard Zinabold, on Flickr

 

[audio2design]

There are many threads past and present regarding some aspect of listening to vinyl. These threads always seem to devolve into claims of how terrible vinyl measures and sounds verses those that say while vinyl may measure poorly it can sound good and due to other factors (nostalgia, artwork, mastering style, fun, etc.) is worthy of a place in a modern Hi-Fi system.

Below is a link to 7 pairs of files marked version A and version B, one of the pair is a 30 second needle drop from an original pressing of the LP, and one is the same from the original CD. The files are time aligned and level matched so they can easily be compared, preferably in foobar2000 ABX, but even if you don’t have access to ABX software, they should give a fair comparison

This will give people reading these threads and seeing the wildly contradictory claims regarding sound quality but never having heard vinyl on their systems to hear what the fuss is all about. It will also give those making claims of “terrible”, “great”, “mastering difference”, etc. a chance to back up their assertions. Hopefully everyone will learn something and have fun.

The signal chain for the needle drops is a Technics SL 1300 (automatic version of the SL 1200), AT33PTG2 cart, DIY SUT, DIY balanced transmitter, Steinberg UR22 MK2 ADC, captured with Audacity with Audacity doing the RIAA conversion.

I think it would be interesting if people that listen to these pairs of files could answer the following questions:

• Can you hear a difference? If yes, do you have an ABX log?
• If you can hear a difference which version is the LP and which ones is the CD?
• If you can hear a difference which version do you prefer?

I will post which file is which as well as the details of the LP pressings and CD version in about week depending on how much if any response this thread generates. Have fun.

Box app.box.com

I think you are serious need of a record cleaner. Your surface noise is quite high. The surface noise means most of the A/B can be done in the first few seconds. Can tell which records are new.

Some of the digital items are not great mastering. I expect old master tapes with too much high frequency hissed remastered before better signal processing came along to reduce hiss without hurting the underlying music.

 

[GXAlan]

There are only a handful of options for buying music

1) streaming subscriptions
2) consumer download AAC/MP3/FLAC
3) vinyl
4) CD
5) high res download

If vinyl has a better mastering despite a worse technical format, it more likely than not will sound better and that is the physical media you should get.

If high res has a better mastering despite no technical advantages over 16/44, it is still going to give you the best results.