• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

High Bitrate FLAC - Can YOU even hear the difference?

Status
Not open for further replies.

PierreV

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 6, 2018
Messages
1,437
Likes
4,686
Theren isn't just a difference, it's a different universe.

In a way, I agree. Those are excellent demo recordings. Analog recordings btw. Mostly of a single voice or instrument in a characteristic environment. In that sense, yes, it is not the same universe as the one in where most of the actual music we listen to is recorded. As far as the Holly Cole piece is concerned, I much prefer the classic audiophile favorite "Train Song" to this piece.

The good news is that those recordings sound good on all systems, from my bad cheap system (less than $200 total) to the big boys in the main room. From my cheap sports in-ears to my (formerly relatively high-end ;) ) Senns...

The bad news, if you will, is that this has nothing to do with hi-res. It still sounds good properly downsampled. It sounds good despite the elevated noise floor of some of the tracks.

Oh, and if you like those recording demonstrations give a chance to the Chesky demo disks. They weren't "Hi-Res" in the way they were delivered at the time, but they are certainly spectacular.
 

PierreV

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 6, 2018
Messages
1,437
Likes
4,686
To be reeeeally perfectly honest, without EQ I can't hear much of a difference.
Without saying that it is what you are hearing, the added headroom provided by the hires formats (say 96kHz/24bits vs 44.1kHz/16bits) is what leaves more room for EQ or DSP. This is roughly similar to starting from RAW formats vs using the default JPEG in image processing.
 

JJB70

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Aug 17, 2018
Messages
2,905
Likes
6,148
Location
Singapore
Those who promote these things so often tend to reach the same contradiction - it's a night and day difference, the reason you can't hear it is your system isn't good enough. Well it's either a big difference or it is so subtle it is only discernible on a top notch well set up system, it can't be both.

I think the whole argument over high-res spectacularly misses the point. The issue affecting SQ isn't digital file format, bit depth etc, it is mastering. A well mastered recording sounds great as MP3 (a very unfairly maligned format), other recordings are rubbish regardless of sample frequency and bit depth. If comparing different file formats then use the same masters and set up a double blind test and then determine whether there are audible differences. Even in cases where differences can be discerned, if doing so requires brain overload critical listening by a trained listener then that basically tells me that such differences are irrelevant anyway.
 

JaccoW

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2021
Messages
348
Likes
512
Location
The Netherlands
I have to say these sound pretty nice over my JBL Go3 bluetooth speaker. :D

But there is definitely some special mastering going on here. They sound very bright and clear on these this speakers where it doesn't do so on most songs... or any other songs for that matter.

Still, nice website. Thanks. I will use them on a better system soon.
 
D

Deleted member 21219

Guest
Your first sentence says "clubs are for lonely people".
You must not be invited to join many clubs, I assume, since that would be the statement of a person who gets rejected a lot.

The term Audiophile and especially its meaning, is interchangeable. It can for example mean audio enthusiast, connoisseur or simply one with exceptional hearing. Don't reprimand people, dictating what "this scene" is or isn't, because it's comprised of many different types who all determine that together.

Also, don't blatantly label other member's contributions as pseudo-scientific, simply because you disagree with the core values of their movement. I can see how you are trying to boast your own ego by referring to these discussions as unscientific.

You must be a sad and bitter individual.

Nope, not sad and bitter. I just happened to state the truth. Some people can recognize that. Some can't. And in case you didn't read closely enough, I did NOT reprimand anyone, nor were my comments aimed at any particular member here. Jim
 
Last edited by a moderator:

LeftCoastTim

Senior Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Apr 15, 2019
Messages
375
Likes
757
My 2 cents:

These recordings have good dynamic range and good room capture that adds to the "realism".

But for the classical pieces, there is quite a bit of "spurious noise". One can hear the piano pedal clacking in the second, and chairs creaking in the third. Maybe they are attempts to "impress" but to me they make them sound like amateur recordings. I mean, why are the chairs creaking so loudly? Did they put the mic on the floor? Same with the piano?

I heard some of the other demos, and they all sound like everything is mic'ed strangely. Probably to highlight "nuances" or some such nonsense.

You know it's audiophile nonsense when there is no description of the artists, but many paragraphs of equipment list :D

edit: oh god, there is a "burn in track": And I quote: "Most equipment manufacturers require burn in time of 300 hours". Bahahahahaha :D
 
Last edited:

Weeb Labs

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Jun 24, 2020
Messages
604
Likes
1,417
Location
Ireland
The good old: "Your setup isn't resolving enough"? :facepalm:

I can accept that there might be an ever so minute change. But "different universe"? Seriously? Get real :D
In the long and storied saga of objectivists and audiophiles, I don't believe that the phrase "your setup isn't resolving enough" has ever been followed by "and here are my ABX test results".
 

MediumRare

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Sep 17, 2019
Messages
1,949
Likes
2,275
Location
Chicago
Terrific set of test tracks; the exemplar of listening to your system (I mean, the mastering) rather than the music. Without buying it, I assume my browser downsampled as my DAC reported a 44.1 input. Sounded fabulous.

Can somebody measure the test tones offered here and see what distortion/other measures comes through Chrome?
 

Chrispy

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 7, 2020
Messages
7,751
Likes
5,910
Location
PNW
In the long and storied saga of objectivists and audiophiles, I don't believe that the phrase "your setup isn't resolving enough" has ever been followed by "and here are my ABX test results".
But who really cares why there should be a difference between objectivists and subjectivists particularly? What's that got to do with audiophilia in general? The resolving bullshit is one thing, and your individual abx results of a given combo are another....
 

Weeb Labs

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Jun 24, 2020
Messages
604
Likes
1,417
Location
Ireland
But who really cares why there should be a difference between objectivists and subjectivists particularly? What's that got to do with audiophilia in general? The resolving bullshit is one thing, and your individual abx results of a given combo are another....
The connection being that those making the "resolving system" statement in respect of audible differences are typically subjectivists and typically refuse to perform an ABX test on the grounds that "it is night and day" or "I know what I hear and don't need to do it".
 

Ron Texas

Master Contributor
Joined
Jun 10, 2018
Messages
6,078
Likes
8,914
I can't tell the difference between 48/24 flac that has been down sampled from any higher bit rate format. Some can if they know what to listen for, but there is no proof that the higher resolution sounds better. Flac vs Wave, give me a break.
 

Zensō

Major Contributor
Joined
Mar 11, 2020
Messages
2,740
Likes
6,740
Location
California
I'm truly mindblown. It's like the world had a big secret that I was finally allowed to learn. Like I've been squeezing oranges with my eye, and finally got a juicer.

Absolutely, unequivocally incredible.

Theren isn't just a difference, it's a different universe.
FCAEC32D-D907-4082-94DD-6361678D7028.gif
 

solderdude

Grand Contributor
Joined
Jul 21, 2018
Messages
15,891
Likes
35,912
Location
The Neitherlands
Well ... it can't be a frequency response thingy.
The DT770 quickly drops off above 19kHz.
 

alphachannel

Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2021
Messages
14
Likes
3
In the long and storied saga of objectivists and audiophiles, I don't believe that the phrase "your setup isn't resolving enough" has ever been followed by "and here are my ABX test results".
This is what most people "from the industry" will never understand, and why some simply don't get Zeos.

At a certain point any graph, measuring result or scientifically accurate observation will fail to describe the human experience, especially one that corresponds to and is so fundamentally influenced by something as subjective as emotion.

If somebody explains to you they can hear the difference, you should be inquiring what they were feeling during this experience, rather than if it can be accurately measured and reproduced by a graph.
 

Marcel

Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2018
Messages
17
Likes
10
What is there to get about Zeos?

Sure there is emotion involved when listening to music. That has nothing to do with the objective qualities of the equipment used. Also, I can have a few drinks and perceive the music differently, so what?
 

solderdude

Grand Contributor
Joined
Jul 21, 2018
Messages
15,891
Likes
35,912
Location
The Neitherlands
This is what most people "from the industry" will never understand, and why some simply don't get Zeos.

At a certain point any graph, measuring result or scientifically accurate observation will fail to describe the human experience, especially one that corresponds to and is so fundamentally influenced by something as subjective as emotion.

If somebody explains to you they can hear the difference, you should be inquiring what they were feeling during this experience, rather than if it can be accurately measured and reproduced by a graph.

The actual problem is that people trust their hearing explicitely to operate as a reliable 'sound quality gauging device'.
Hearing could be used for that when the 'knowing what you are listening to' and level differences are removed from the comparisons.
In that case the emotion is irrelevant as it will be the same when comparing.
 

DanielT

Major Contributor
Joined
Oct 10, 2020
Messages
4,751
Likes
4,633
Location
Sweden - Слава Україні
Speaking of different types of music, recordings. I read what a speaker manufacturer said about the music played at hifi fairs. He was asked: but why is so much music played, that is, "fair jazz" by all exhibitors.

His response was that exhibitors do not want to endanger and play music that "makes demands" on the hifi system and the listeners.Soft, nice and "easy" music for the ears is what you play (can add that he sometimes, if time allows, has more dedicated listening sessions for smaller groups where limits are really tested on what his speakers can pe perform).

He said that most visitors do not listen in sweetspot, so what gives such a listning. In addition, he said that the acoustics in listening rooms at hifi fairs are often bad, even very bad. You simply
have to take it for what it is.

His tips go to hifi fairs because it is fun to meet like-minded people who like music. Have some beer and talk shit. Think about the functionality of the stuff and get a sense of how stuff would fit in your home. Aesthetically, that is to say. Easier to get a sense of size of speakers for example, even finsh on speakers can be aspect that many weigh into decisions.
 
Last edited:

escksu

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Jul 16, 2020
Messages
965
Likes
397
This is what most people "from the industry" will never understand, and why some simply don't get Zeos.

At a certain point any graph, measuring result or scientifically accurate observation will fail to describe the human experience, especially one that corresponds to and is so fundamentally influenced by something as subjective as emotion.

If somebody explains to you they can hear the difference, you should be inquiring what they were feeling during this experience, rather than if it can be accurately measured and reproduced by a graph.

I understand where you are coming from... I too thought of it. Unfortunately, there is currently no way to measure such things today.

There are alot of characteristics of audio that we are not yet able to measure. Those spatial qualities (staging, imaging etc...), we don't have a way to measure them using an instrument. It still has to be done through subjective listening.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom