• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Asimov Foundation

HiFidFan

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 22, 2021
Messages
723
Likes
906
Location
U.S.A
I never read the books but have watched the first two episodes. From a story perspective it is still early so I'll have to see how it shapes up, but the production value is very high. It looks gorgeous on our 4K OLED in HDR.
 

Ron Texas

Master Contributor
Joined
Jun 10, 2018
Messages
6,077
Likes
8,913
I don't understand all the negativity. Just because it isn't faithful to the original means nothing to me. It should be judged on its own. I viewed the first episode and it looked good. Probably 90% of the people who see it never read the books.
 
Last edited:

JJB70

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Aug 17, 2018
Messages
2,905
Likes
6,148
Location
Singapore
I think a lot depends on whether or not you have read the books.

I watched the Man in the High Castle having never read the book and really liked the first two seasons, though I thought it went off the rails in season 3. Then I read the book and realized that the TV adaptation shared the same name and not that much else.

To use a music analogy, Beethoven wrote music. If I go to a concert advertising a performance of his music or buy a recording I expect it to be a performance of the music as written by Beethoven, not a reinterpretation written by the performer. If the performer wants to do that then it is fine if it is sold as something like Fred Blogs Beethoven variations, or symphony on a theme of Beethoven, but don't pretend it is Beethoven.

Writing new stories and piggybacking a much loved name seems lazy and cheap to me. The Expanse shows it is entirely possible to film a complex and multi-layered story which is pretty faithful to the original stories. In the case of the Expanse the irony is they went for a different title. Some adaptation is probably necessary to make books work on TV or film but the Expanse shows how that can be done extremely well.

I know it is an old tradition of the film and TV sectors to keep the name and change everything else, or to make films allegedly based on historical events which are nonsense but it doesn't make it any less annoying when they murder a book I love or write fiction pretending to be history.
 

Blumlein 88

Grand Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 23, 2016
Messages
20,523
Likes
37,054
I think a lot depends on whether or not you have read the books.

I watched the Man in the High Castle having never read the book and really liked the first two seasons, though I thought it went off the rails in season 3. Then I read the book and realized that the TV adaptation shared the same name and not that much else.

To use a music analogy, Beethoven wrote music. If I go to a concert advertising a performance of his music or buy a recording I expect it to be a performance of the music as written by Beethoven, not a reinterpretation written by the performer. If the performer wants to do that then it is fine if it is sold as something like Fred Blogs Beethoven variations, or symphony on a theme of Beethoven, but don't pretend it is Beethoven.

Writing new stories and piggybacking a much loved name seems lazy and cheap to me. The Expanse shows it is entirely possible to film a complex and multi-layered story which is pretty faithful to the original stories. In the case of the Expanse the irony is they went for a different title. Some adaptation is probably necessary to make books work on TV or film but the Expanse shows how that can be done extremely well.

I know it is an old tradition of the film and TV sectors to keep the name and change everything else, or to make films allegedly based on historical events which are nonsense but it doesn't make it any less annoying when they murder a book I love or write fiction pretending to be history.
This times ten. Excellent explanation.

Quick example you go looking for some Beethoven and end up listening to this:
 

Jimbob54

Grand Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Oct 25, 2019
Messages
11,066
Likes
14,697
Watched episode 3 yesterday… more emotional drivel, very little story progression. Getting worse :mad:

Watched it tonight. Agree, its getting slower. I'm re-reading the books and am currently at about the same point in both. The books do in about 50 pages what its taken nearly 4 hours of TV to do.
 

Count Arthur

Major Contributor
Joined
Jan 10, 2020
Messages
2,194
Likes
4,883
I've read a fair number of science fiction novels over the years, but I never got around to Foundation and I don't think I've read any of Asimov's other books.

I got hold of a copy of Foundation and I was surprised how short it was. Like a lot of sci-fi novels of the 50s and 60s, although set in the future, it's kind of dated at the same time. I enjoyed it, but it's far from the most thought provoking novel I've ever read. I have the rest of the series, so I may read them too.

I also recently re-read Dune, which I had originally read in my early teens. A couple of things occurred to me, while both these novels are set in the far future, with advanced technologies, faster than light travel and a human civilisation spread across multiple worlds throughout the galaxy, they both feature a feudal, aristocratic system of government, with emperors, barrons and dukes, which in the present we might consider a more antiquated system. Odd that both Frank Herbert and Isaac Asimov are both from the US, a nation that fought a war to free itself from aristocratic rule.

With regard to Dune, I was also struck by parallels between the story of Paul and the Fremen and T.E. Lawrence and the Arabs; I wonder if Frank Herbert ever read the Seven Pillars of Wisdom.

I've seen the first three episodes of the TV series and I agree, so far, it's only very losely based on the book. However, I did see one review which suggested that the book wouldn't translate very well to the screen unaltered and I'm inclined to agree. Beyond the first chapter or two, the book is essentially a collection of short stories. While everything relates back to Seldon and the Foundation the book keeps leaping forward in time and we are constantly introduced to new characters. I understand the decision to have some characters, in the TV version stick around so that they can become a constant throughout the series.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: JRS

FrantzM

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 12, 2016
Messages
4,337
Likes
7,731
I don't understand all the negativity. Just because it isn't faithful to the original means nothing to me. It should be judged on its own. I viewed the first episode and it looked good. Probably 90% of the people who see it never read the books.
It's not the deviations from the book that bothers... It is, so far, the pacing and story/ies, the slow and confusing pace, the love stories that drop on you with no notice , focus or context.. the meandering or non-existing plot, the absence of context for all this and .. yes .. after all these years that a galaxy-wide civilization, defers to a trio of clones? Seriously? Who can summarily kill ambassadors , just .. because??? Visuals are good but are par for the course. We are living extraordinary time in TV: Production values are at an all-time high. This series, so far is no better in this regard than many others today in terms of visuals and certainly not in sound.. I've heard better..

I think what we are seeing is a series that has , so far, not lived up to the hyperbole. Expectations were high. It hasn't delivered. It is a series, it can improve but, these days , patience is not something streaming media cultivate...
 

Ron Texas

Master Contributor
Joined
Jun 10, 2018
Messages
6,077
Likes
8,913
@FrantzM sorry you can't keep up with it.
 

JSmith

Master Contributor
Joined
Feb 8, 2021
Messages
5,153
Likes
13,214
Location
Algol Perseus
I'm really hooked on this so far and hanging for the next episode week to week.

This really feels like being taken to another world, another time, complete sci-fi escapism.



JSmith
 

Jimbob54

Grand Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Oct 25, 2019
Messages
11,066
Likes
14,697
It's not the deviations from the book that bothers... It is, so far, the pacing and story/ies, the slow and confusing pace, the love stories that drop on you with no notice , focus or context.. the meandering or non-existing plot, the absence of context for all this

The flow of time has been handled poorly as has the emotional/ romantic angles. Those who have read the books realise any relationship is inconsequential to the overall plot for obvious reasons so there is little point to elaborating/ investing.

I suspect things may change pace and focus when the vault opens..........
 

Dave Zan

Active Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2019
Messages
168
Likes
486
Location
Canberra, Australia
I don't understand...Just because it isn't faithful...
Probably 90% of the people who see it never read the books.

A lot of bad science fiction uses a similar excuse - "Probably 90% of the people who see it don't understand science" so who cares if it makes sense?
But the bad science is usually a clue that the writer/director is either too lazy or incompetent to work out science that does make sense, or else they think that the audience is too lazy or stupid to notice.
Neither makes for well made movies.
Whereas a director who makes the effort to have the science at least plausible usually also makes an effort in all the other aspects of the movie.
Not only is the script better but it even helps the actors too, because they can work in a believably built world.
In the ASR tradition of evidence based posts :) I cite - Stanley Kubrick with "2001", Ridley Scott with "Blade Runner" and "Alien", or James Cameron with "Aliens" and "Terminator".
So I think the failure to follow the novel is a bad indicator, even if you haven't read the book.

I know it is an old tradition of the film and TV sectors to keep the name and...murder a book...

I hate that tradition too, so here's a rant!
I think there is more in it than just the misrepresentation that you mention and I finally realised why, at least for me.
It is often claimed that since books and films are different media then there must be some adaptation, and there's some truth in that.
But I noticed that there is a similar pattern in biopics, the bad ones are almost always the ones that alter the factual story.
Mediocre directors (or the producers or whoever is responsible) make stuff up to make the story "better".
That usually means to fit some preconceived idea, more "Hollywood" with a particular narrative arc - the monomyth if you read Joseph Campbell.
But that makes it more predictable, removes all the surprise and richness of real life.
Similarly when directors alter a novelist's story they usually make it worse, lose the individuality or even idiosyncrasies that made it successful in the first place, replaced with a more bland, lowest common denominator and mediocre product.

Best wishes
David
 
Last edited:

voodooless

Grand Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jun 16, 2020
Messages
10,226
Likes
17,803
Location
Netherlands
Similarly when directors alter a novelist's story they usually make it worse, lose the individuality or even idiosyncrasies that made it successful in the first place, replaced with a more bland, lowest common denominator and mediocre product.
Ah, you've seen the last couple of seasons of Game of Thrones then :facepalm:
 

Count Arthur

Major Contributor
Joined
Jan 10, 2020
Messages
2,194
Likes
4,883
Ah, you've seen the last couple of seasons of Game of Thrones then

I'll just leave this here:

iu
 

voodooless

Grand Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jun 16, 2020
Messages
10,226
Likes
17,803
Location
Netherlands
Then don't watch and stop complaining.
Then don’t read it and stop complaining ;) If we weren’t allowed to complain, most headless panther threads would be not quite as entertaining as they are.. I guess I’ll just have to file it under “morbid curiosity” for now.
 

Ron Texas

Master Contributor
Joined
Jun 10, 2018
Messages
6,077
Likes
8,913
Then don’t read it and stop complaining ;) If we weren’t allowed to complain, most headless panther threads would be not quite as entertaining as they are.. I guess I’ll just have to file it under “morbid curiosity” for now.
Look, it's not The expanse, but it's OK. Maybe the new version of Dune will lift our spirits.
 
OP
NiagaraPete

NiagaraPete

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jun 23, 2021
Messages
2,185
Likes
1,953
Location
Canada
The flow of time has been handled poorly as has the emotional/ romantic angles. Those who have read the books realise any relationship is inconsequential to the overall plot for obvious reasons so there is little point to elaborating/ investing.

I suspect things may change pace and focus when the vault opens..........
I'm reading the books again now. I think Asimov may have like the cloned Emperor.
 
Top Bottom