Topping PA3s Review (Desktop Amplifier)

[GimeDsp]

This is poor, again, same as for many cheap class D amplifiers.

View attachment 156836

Unfortunately, Hypex Ncore and Purifi remain the only well behaving class D amplifiers. Still a lot to learn, @JohnYang1997 .

So this graph is showing distortion and noise is variable for frequency? I'm trying to understand this, thanks

 

[respice finem]

@pma I guess this is mainly a patent issue, the certain privilege of those who arrived first at a higher level (in this case Hypex/Purifi).
And, modules from Hypex/Purifi tend to be "slightly" more expensive, so like should be compared with like.
"Horses for courses".

 

[Merkurio]

Being a neophyte in passive speakers amplification, what could be a proper power level for an average set?

We know that headphones like HD600 require 100-200 mW for a proper performance, what about speakers rated at 4-8 ohms with a given range of power handling?

 

[amirm]

Being a neophyte in passive speakers amplification, what could be a proper power level for an average set?

We know that headphones like HD600 require 100-200 mW for a proper performance, what about speakers rated at 4-8 ohms with a given range of power handling?

We need to identify a prototypical speaker like we have with Sennheiser HD6XXX in headphone land. Then I can work on identifying satisfying level for it as far as power amplifiers.

 

[amirm]

Unfortunately, Hypex Ncore and Purifi remain the only well behaving class D amplifiers. Still a lot to learn, @JohnYang1997 .

This little to do with Topping design. They have done their job to create a clean execution of the class D chip they are using. Hypex and Purifi are discrete implementations so different animal.

 

[Merkurio]

We need to identify a prototypical speaker like we have with Sennheiser HD6XXX in headphone land. Then I can work on identifying satisfying level for it as far as power amplifiers.

It could be great, indeed.

Something that nail your measurements (to an extent), with a compact size an reasonable price, much like the Senns.

 

[JohnYang1997]

This is poor, again, same as for many cheap class D amplifiers.

View attachment 156836

Unfortunately, Hypex Ncore and Purifi remain the only well behaving class D amplifiers. Still a lot to learn, @JohnYang1997 .

Nah. Wait for it. This is just an exercise from one of our new engineers.

 

[antcollinet]

Hmmm.... Come on!

For your inspiration, Boulder 3050 monoblock

View attachment 156832

Boulder is pathetic by comparison:
£373 per stereo watt for Boulder
£3.26 per stereo watt for Topping

40dB£ more expensive per watt.

Just one metric admittedly - but still...

 

[PeteL]

Being a neophyte in passive speakers amplification, what could be a proper power level for an average set?

We know that headphones like HD600 require 100-200 mW for a proper performance, what about speakers rated at 4-8 ohms with a given range of power handling?

The issue with this is that there are more parameter to consider compared to headphones. The size and shape of the room and listening distance. The use or not of a powered sub to take some of the load, etc, you will not be able to say X Watts is sufficient to power these speakers but only X Watts is sufficient under condition a, b, c.

 

[respice finem]

The issue with this is that there are more parameter to consider compared to headphones. The size and shape of the room and listening distance. The use or not of a powered sub to take some of the load, etc, you will not be able to say X Watts is sufficient to power these speakers but only X Watts is sufficient under condition a, b, c.

One of the reasons why decent active speakers are a safer bet. Every driver gets its fitting power amp.
If the room is too big for the speaker(s), a more powerful amp won't help either.

 

[PeteL]

@pma I guess this is mainly a patent issue, the certain privilege of those who arrived first at a higher level (in this case Hypex/Purifi).
And, modules from Hypex/Purifi tend to be "slightly" more expensive, so like should be compared with like.
"Horses for courses".

I think it's the wrong way to loo at it. Hypex/Purifi Have patents because they make something better than what was out there, because they pushed the state of the art. Existing patents should actually help other manufacturers to make better amps, not prevent them to do so. Altough you can't do the same thing, you can use what they made to inspire from and improve or derive from it enough to have your own patent.The R&D achieved is a starting point.

 

[respice finem]

I think it's the wrong way to loo at it. Hypex/Purifi Have patents because they make something better than what was out there, because they pushed the state of the art. Existing patents should actually help other manufacturers to make better amps, not prevent them to do so. Altough you can't do the same thing, you can use what they made to inspire from and improve or derive from it enough to have your own patent.

Maybe. Coming from a medical profession, I see patents doing exactly that (preventing others...) and they keep prices from high to obscenely high.

 

[daftcombo]

This is poor, again, same as for many cheap class D amplifiers.

View attachment 156836

Unfortunately, Hypex Ncore and Purifi remain the only well behaving class D amplifiers. Still a lot to learn, @JohnYang1997 .

Do you think the amplifiers in Genelec or Neumann speakers are better though?

 

[PeteL]

Maybe. Coming from a medical profession, I see patents doing exactly that (preventing others...) and they keep prices from high to obscenely high.

I think it's a bit different there. Audio technology don't save lives... And well, you can always licence if your goal is not to do R&D but just use what's out there, it's a quite common business model.

 

[Doodski]

I think it's a bit different there. Audio technology don't save lives... And well, you can always licence if your goal is not to do R&D but just use what's out there, it's a quite common business model.

Audio gear has definitely saved lives. Access to music and whatever comes with that is a changing experience.

 

[Mathias]

@amirm What do you think of the sound? Did you do a listening test?

 

[PeteL]

Audio gear has definitely saved lives. Access to music and whatever comes with that is a changing experience.

It's a bit far fetch but OK, but my point is that in audio, as opposed to the medical field, if prices are high it's not because of patents. If it was the case, Amps using Hypex modules would be more expensive than Class AB amps of the same power, it's actually more often than not the opposite. The price of the amp that we are looking at here is not disclosed, but we know it will be cheap. It will be cheap because it uses patented technology, the chip. Not despite the fact.

 

[LTig]

Do you think the amplifiers in Genelec or Neumann speakers are better though?

Probably, probably not. But they don't need to be perfect since each amp covers a much smaller range of octaves. Hence THD and IMD artifacts become less audible (masked; not reproduced by the driver; not created in the first place) compared to an amplifier feeding a full range speaker.

 

[pma]

Nah. Wait for it. This is just an exercise from one of our new engineers.

Thanks for the explanation, I will be looking forward to your design. As a small challenge, this is the same/similar kind of measurement on a small class AB amplifier with TMC compensation. I hope you will get better . I tried to keep the same scaling as @amirm for fast comparison.

(BTW I need more than 7 minutes for a single plot, these 4 plots take more than 30 minutes)
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and Topping as per the review>

 

[q3cpma]

This little to do with Topping design. They have done their job to create a clean execution of the class D chip they are using. Hypex and Purifi are discrete implementations so different animal.

Neurochrome using the LM3886 shows what you can do with chipamps, though.