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Thunder

Thunder

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No what I meant to say is that Genelec 8330 that doesn't need DAC will sound better than 8030 with any DAC you will ever use with. 8030 will need DAC
Would they be good for consuming media? I don't do any mixing or anything, I just want to get the best bang for buck quality while listening to flac music, playing games, watching movies...
 

Haruko

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I wouldn't call D90SE best bang for the buck tho :D I don't know the prices in your country but this is how i see it:
Analog way: D90SE 1200€ + 8030 1070€
AES: 8330 1490€ + something like Lotoo PAW D1 USB 256€

I don't know the prices in your country but paying more for DAC than speakers is ridiculous... at least to me
 

Helicopter

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For your budget and listening distance, I would be deciding between Genelec 8030C or Neumann KH120.

Another member posted his semi-anechoic measurements of the KH120, and it's on-par with Neumann's provided spinorama...which speaks volumes about Neumann's accuracy and transparency.
index.php

source.

Here's the comparison btw Genelec 8030C (dashed) or Neumann KH120 (solid):
View attachment 155827
source.

Genelec 8030C:
1. Literally destruct proof.
2. Preference Score is 6.3 and would be 8.5 with a perfect subwoofer.
3. Not as deep bass (Bass extension: 46Hz at -6dB)
4. On budget, 450 EUR/each https://www.thomannmusic.com/intl/genelec_8030_cp.htm

Neumann KH 120:
1. Preference Score is 6.7 and would be 8.7 with a perfect subwoofer.
2. Better bass response (Bass extension: 42Hz at -6dB)
3. On budget, 520 EUR/each https://www.thomannmusic.com/intl/neumann_kh_120_a.htm

Seeing how many people are happy with both Genelecs (myself included) and Neumanns, IMO, those would be my recommendations.

Also, Focal Solo 6 Be looks gorgeous (and measures well)...but slightly outside of his budget (at 800 EUR/each), I believe.
:facepalm: i was thinking 1000 per speaker.
 

Haruko

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but yeah all things considering buying 8030 you will not be limited to aes converter and can use the DAC (for example d90SE) for different applications like hooking it up with headphone amp or something else having a DAC has much more uses that's for sure... or you could buy 8040 with cheaper DAC... which is probably best option
 
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OP
Thunder

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but yeah all things considering buying 8030 you will not be limited to aes converter and can use the DAC (for example d90SE) for different applications like hooking it up with headphone amp or something else having a DAC has much more uses that's for sure... or you could buy 8040 with cheaper DAC... which is probably best option
I always thought a good DAC is as important as the speakers themselves.

Which DAC would you recommend me for both 8040s?
 

dominikz

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I always thought a good DAC is as important as the speakers themselves.
That might depend on how you define a good DAC.

E.g. if you're talking about sound quality, many here (myself included :)) will argue that most well designed DACs (flat FR, SINAD above 16bit/~95dB range, etc...) are audibly transparent when used correctly. Today this performance bar is reasonably easy to achieve in a DAC, so such devices need not be expensive at all (e.g. look at Topping D10 or MOTU M2 or even the Apple USB-C dongle as a very budget device).
Unfortunately, with loudspeakers/headphones technical competence is not so easy to achieve, and so there are relatively fewer cheap but well performing transducers, and such transducers usually imply much more technical compromises.

If you're instead talking about things like ergonomics, SW/HW features, driver/firmware stability, DSP capability, customer support quality, HW reliability, esthetics etc... then it is a different story and indeed there may very well be cases where it is fully reasonable to spend a lot on a DAC vs transducers.

To paint a bit of a caricature, as a consumer I myself would much rather spend 900 units of money on good loudspeakers and a 100 on an OK DAC, rather than 500 each on mediocre DAC and mediocre speakers. :)

Anyway good luck with your search!
 

Haruko

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I can only speak from experience (I have not heard d90se because of how expensive it is and no one around me has the unit to compare) but as you can see from E50 measurements it is comparable in terms of stellar measurements and with almost 1:5 price ratio we are talking about diminishing returns... whereas if you look at 8040 spreadsheet i strongly believe difference between 8030 and 8040 would be quite audible in terms of SPL, low freq. extension...
 
OP
Thunder

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That might depend on how you define a good DAC.

E.g. if you're talking about sound quality, many here (myself included :)) will argue that most well designed DACs (flat FR, SINAD above 16bit/~95dB range, etc...) are audibly transparent when used correctly. Today this performance bar is reasonably easy to achieve in a DAC, so such devices need not be expensive at all (e.g. look at Topping D10 or MOTU M2 or even the Apple USB-C dongle as a very budget device).
Unfortunately, with loudspeakers/headphones technical competence is not so easy to achieve, and so there are relatively fewer cheap but well performing transducers, and such transducers usually imply much more technical compromises.

If you're instead talking about things like ergonomics, SW/HW features, driver/firmware stability, DSP capability, customer support quality, HW reliability, esthetics etc... then it is a different story and indeed there may very well be cases where it is fully reasonable to spend a lot on a DAC vs transducers.

To paint a bit of a caricature, as a consumer I myself would much rather spend 900 units of money on good loudspeakers and a 100 on an OK DAC, rather than 500 each on mediocre DAC and mediocre speakers. :)

Anyway good luck with your search!
Nice, thank you for the info! :D
 

Trell

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No what I meant to say is that Genelec 8330 that doesn't need DAC will sound better than 8030 with any DAC you will ever use with. 8030 will need DAC

I've the 8330A using analog input and it sounds very nice even though there is an ADC done inside the Genelec. I'm doubtful that I would ever hear any difference if I where to use AES/EBU instead.
 

Trell

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Would they be good for consuming media? I don't do any mixing or anything, I just want to get the best bang for buck quality while listening to flac music, playing games, watching movies...

I've two pairs of 8330A in my small home office and one of the pairs even has a Genelec 7360A subwoofer. I only use analogue input for them.

The reason I bought the 8330A over the 8030C is that the 8330A has built-in room correction that is available if you buy the GLM Kit, and in my opinion that is very well worth the extra money. After calibration you don't need to have the GLM Kit connected.

If you do buy the 8330A you really should save up to buy the GLM Kit as well.
 

Trell

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The analogue versions of the Genelecs (like the 8030C) have a quite sensitive input so with some DACs you may want a passive attenuator, otherwise only a small range of the volume knob will be used. For an excellent audio interface like the MOTU M2 this is an issue I have for one pair of my 8330As but for those monitors the range of sensitivity is much larger and I've no need for any passive attenuator. A volume change internally in the 8330A is the same as changing sensitivity.

More on passive attenuators from RME: https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?pid=120442#p120442

Edit: For the sensitivity comment I got that from a Genelec employee in (for 8351 but the same applies here wrt GLM) https://community.genelec.com/en/forum/-/message_boards/view_message/906997#/

>>>
Of course I have, that why I made the decision for Genelec
:D

But I don't use the GLM for adjusting the volume, its always fixed on 0 dB for analog source (I do not use the digital input).
Did I miss the point or what has GLM to do with the input sensitivity question?

Oh good! Yes, you have missed a very important point.
:)
GLM volume setting is the same as input sensitivity adjustment,[Bold added] it just has more range, from 0 to 120 dB. Also, when you are using GLM, all manual settings behind the monitor are overridden. The only dip you need to enable is the stored settings switch which enables the monitor to remember the GLM settings stored in it. In order to set the input sensitivity via GLM, go to Group | Store current group settings at current volume level to SAM monitors, and have the volume slider for example at -20 dB then. Obviously you don't need to have music playing then.
<<<
 
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HiFidFan

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Genelecs are known for their digital series 83XX which have no need for DAC as they have digital input (They simply sound superior to analog series). Any analog input will only tarnish the sound as you need to convert from Analog to digital (this ADC is from genelec and you have no way to bypass it) and back (internal DAC). 8030 Would be sane choice for dedicated DAC but you are missing on that Genelec engineering.

Just for clarification, the 8320 does not offer a digital input. The 8330 and up, do.
 

Trell

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Just for clarification, the 8320 does not offer a digital input. The 8330 and up, do.

And add that for the 8320/8330 there are no dip-switches nor a sensitivity knob so all those changes must be done from GLM. Auto-standby (ISS as Genelec calls it) are off by default and can only be turned on using the GLM Kit.
 

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I'm doubtful that I would ever hear any difference if I where to use AES/EBU instead.
I guess you didn't try using AES then...
 

Trell

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I guess you didn't try using AES then...

Yup, don't think it will make any audible difference to make the effort and cost to try set it up for testing. The AES/EBU connection as such was long down on my list of what I wanted from the monitors.
 

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Yup, don't think it will make any audible difference to make the effort and cost to try set it up for testing. The AES/EBU connection as such was long down on my list of what I wanted from the monitors.

I appreciate this. Using my iMac as a source, AES/EBU would be a challenge to implement.
 

Haruko

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I appreciate this. Using my iMac as a source, AES/EBU would be a challenge to implement.
all i am saying is Genelec ADC in the unit is not audibly transparent... at least not in mine... and using usb digital interface and running 2 110 ohm xlr cables is a bit weird to call this a challenge don't you think ? These monitors were meant to be used with AES ... analog input is only for compatibility and used only when you have nothing else... if you don't wanna skip da/ad conversion you do you man
 

HiFidFan

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all i am saying is Genelec ADC in the unit is not audibly transparent... at least not in mine... and using usb digital interface and running 2 110 ohm xlr cables is a bit weird to call this a challenge don't you think ? These monitors were meant to be used with AES ... analog input is only for compatibility and used only when you have nothing else... if you don't wanna skip da/ad conversion you do you man

Perhaps "challenging" was the wrong word.

Do you use a digital interface? If so, which one?
 

Haruko

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I use a bit complicated route because at the time i bought speakers i did know of more options so i use usb to spdif (20€) and hosa spdif to aes... 100+€... if i were to buy it today i would just buy usb to aes converter like Lotoo PAW D1 or better yet SMSL SD-9 which can work as network player... that lotoo looks like a rly cheap unit so i would probably stay away from that
 
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richard12511

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Yup, don't think it will make any audible difference to make the effort and cost to try set it up for testing. The AES/EBU connection as such was long down on my list of what I wanted from the monitors.

I haven't tested the 8330, but I have tested digital vs analogue for my 8351b, and the difference is completely inaudible, so it would surprise me if the 8330 were different. The d to a or a to d conversion needs to be especially bad to make any difference at all(even the $9 apple dongle is audibly perfect), and even more terrible to make an appreciable difference.
 
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