Guidance with equipment upgrade (DAC, amp, AVR)

[csepulv]

Recently, I've done some room swaps in my home and I looking to update the equipment in my new family room. I discovered ASR a few weeks ago and have been grateful, amazed, and a bit overwhelmed, by the treasure trove of information on the site. I've spent many hours reading, trying to lessen my ignorance. (Many thanks to @amirm and the ASR community.)

I have an old Denon AVR-3808CI and Paradigm speakers. I recently built a Raspberry PI streamer running Volumio. (I also have a Roku, DirecTV, and Blu-ray player).

From what I've read here, AVRs are okay, but generally suffer from stuffing a lot of elements in one box and can have mediocre components constrained by price (and perhaps not enough attention to detail/testing).

So, I am considering buying a good desktop DAC (Topping, possibly Matrix Audio) and a Hypex or Purifi based amp. I can imagine connecting the DAC and the amp, with my Denon DVR, in a few different ways:

Opt A
Raspberry PI stream->Topping DAC->Denon analog input (direct/pure direct mode)->amp

Opt B
Denon Pre-out (fronts) -> Matrix Mini-i 3 DAC (has analog inputs)
Raspberry PI Stream -> Matrix DAC
Matrix DAC -> Amp

In both cases, I would let the Denon handle HDMI switching/processing for the Blu-ray, DirecTV and Roku.

In opt (a), I lose the balanced output/input from the DAC to the amp. How significant a loss is that, for my overall music listening? Might the Denon introduce noise/problems to the DAC->amp chain, even in pure direct mode?

Option (a) is a bit cheaper (I could use Topping D30 Pro) and seems fine if the Denon doesn't cause the chain to break down.

Should I just get the DAC? Or just the amp?

My goal is a better music listening experience. I am relatively happy with my current setup, but I don't know if the Denon is "clean" enough (SINAD, power, ...).

In short, I am wondering if my AVR is a weak enough link in the chain that the Topping DAC, the Hypex (or Purifi) amp or both would make for a much better listening experience. (The Topping D30 Pro and a Hypex/Purifi amp seem like good values with very good performance.)

Or perhaps the weak link in the chain is me? That would be okay, but it is hard to know (i.e. measure) if I am the weak link.

Thanks in advance for any guidance.

 

[csepulv]

After I posted this, I then noticed the following in the "Similar Threads"

Swapping AVR for Stereo AMP and DAC?

Hi. I just got some new speakers (used Focal Aria 926's) and they sound great. Before I was using the Pioneer Andrew Jones towers and center channel. My system sounds way better for music now and movies sound better too, but the new towers are so much more powerful than my old ones that my...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Connecting Preamp to AVR, does avr have to be on bypass mode?

I want to connect a preamp to my Denon 3700, but I want to continue using Audyssey. I am not sure if that is possible, does the avr need to be in bypass mode when connecting to a Topping Pre90 preamp?

www.audiosciencereview.com

So if I don't really hear a problem, maybe I am fine? I'd still be curious to hear any opinions and guidance. I still find myself spun around as I read through the various opinions and posts.

 

[Chrispy]

I was just looking at your plan to use pre-outs to a dac? What would the point of that be since it's already analog? I think the 3808 is a nice unit (I have one) in any case and you likely would gain zilch with an external dac.

 

[csepulv]

@Chrispy, assuming you are referring to

Denon Pre-out (fronts) -> Matrix Mini-i 3 DAC (has analog inputs)
Raspberry PI Stream -> Matrix DAC

The pre-outs from the Denon, in this case, would be to send the HDMI decoded signals (TV, Roku,...) to the Matrix, so there is a path to the amp and speakers. The Matrix DAC would only decode the Raspberry PI (and any streaming to the Matrix). I only considered this in the case the Denon would somehow interfere with the Topping, in option A. Or if there was reason I should really preserve the balanced output of the DAC.

But on the dac in the 3808, it seems your experience is that the Denon 3808 dac is good enough and neither Topping nor the Matrix would add anything. Good to know.

Thanks.

 

[Chrispy]

@Chrispy, assuming you are referring to

The pre-outs from the Denon, in this case, would be to send the HDMI decoded signals (TV, Roku,...) to the Matrix, so there is a path to the amp and speakers. The Matrix DAC would only decode the Raspberry PI (and any streaming to the Matrix). I only considered this in the case the Denon would somehow interfere with the Topping, in option A. Or if there was reason I should really preserve the balanced output of the DAC.

But on the dac in the 3808, it seems your experience is that the Denon 3808 dac is good enough and neither Topping nor the Matrix would add anything. Good to know.

Thanks.

Didn't look up the Matrix unit, but since it was described as a dac I was wondering why you would feed it an analog signal, but it does appear to have analog inputs and can act as a pre-amp/integrated amp to an extent (for headphones, you don't seem to have an amp?). I'd just use the Denon for dac/amp generally. Don't see the benefits of adding complexity, altho maybe if you're a headphone user the Matrix unit is helpful?

 

[Ajnagrekoms]

I have 7.2.4 in the bedroom and living room ran by a denon 8500 but am using the denon as a preamp with outlaw7000x running my surrounds and outdoor speakers and 4 ncore monoblock diy builds running the stereo speakers. My surround systems are all klipsch rp line witb spl150 subs and i have cornwall ivs in the living room. The system is amazing sounding for movies however i was not happy with the internal dac at all when it came to stereo listening. What i ended up doing was getting a little big bear source selector switch on amazon which allows me to switch between dac and avr sources and to which set of speakrs i want to use be it living room or bedroom stereo or surround. Still looking for a way to incorporate the dac with surround to totally eliminate usage of the internal denon dac even when watching movies but for now it is a night and day difference in fidelity just incorporating the ncores with a rather inexpensive s.m.s.l su8 dac which uses the mqa decoding. i think the mqa is what is making the biggest difference in the stereo audio quality vs denons internal dac. inspite of losing the bakanced connection i suppose i could try connecting the s.m.s.l dac into my avr inputs and use the pure direct mode to see what difference if any there is between the avr dac and the smsl for movies or music that isnt encoded with mqa.