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Schiit Vali 2+ Review (Tube Headphone Amp)

ROOSKIE

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If humans were universally rational beings tube gear would have probably died long time ago, same with vinyl.
I don't own vinyl and love my Spotify and Tidal, however the only reason it is rational for me not to have vinyl is because I don't love it and instead love having it all in my phone for a modest cost.
I have peeps who love vinyl, and love having a physical collection with large artwork and love placing the needle and love changing the sides. They love stopping in the record shop, the garage sale or buying direct from the artist. The list goes on. Sounds pretty rational to me for someone who loves those experiences to buy vinyl.
Even the tube stuff sometimes looks really cool and likely sounds good enough for even many critical folks. Just don't over pay and don't kid yourself about it.
I do value SQ, that said it is not IMHO rational to value sound quality and the expense of all other qualities.
 

sarumbear

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Jimbob54

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Schiit internal AP measurements look much better. @amirm could it be a bad power supply or something else broken with this particular unit causing the 60Hz and harmonics noise?

https://www.schiit.com/public/upload/PDF/Schiit APx555 Vali2 Plus.pdf

@imagidominc assuming this is your unit and given what Amir notes about the case saying 2, not 2+ and the post I am replying to, Im assuming you are 100% certain you both bought and indeed were delivered a 2+ . Given the recent tension between Schiit and ASR I think we would all hate to see a misunderstanding/ error muddying the water on the back of this review

That said, we know Schiit would say yes it measures badly , but measurement dont tell the story ;-)
 

Gorgonzola

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I have peeps who love vinyl, and love having a physical collection with large artwork and love placing the needle and love changing the sides. They love stopping in the record shop, the garage sale or buying direct from the artist. The list goes on. Sounds pretty rational to me for someone who loves those experiences to buy vinyl.

Time & again I've mentioned that I gave up on LPs largely because of the tedium of wrangling fragile 12" discs plus the intricacies of maintaining turntable and tonearms. But then I've often been told that it is the rituals of LP retrieval and handling to gives them pleasure, not to mention the full-sized album art and liner notes
 

HiFidFan

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This is what I'm considering too. They made like 3-4 amazingly measured products in a row and now they drop this Vali 2+ on the market. I don't know if this design is their purpose or it has to do with factors like they can't make a cheap hybrid/OTL measure flawlessly.
Either way, at the very least it delivers good power to high ohm loads and it's not that expensive to be fair. I think this one will not be an instant reject for many headphones lovers.

The philosophy is in keeping with what Schiit has been very upfront about. Which is, they make products with good measurements to keep the objectivists happy and they make products that may not have good measurements but "sound good". Some people like tubes, no matter how they measure. Schiit's product line affords choice.
 

AdamG

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or that was not the 2+ model but infect is the 2 model as the box shows?
The back of this amp does indicate it is the 2+ model. See small white label just to the right of the RCA Out jacks.
 

JaMaSt

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To be fair to the Schiit guys, they tell you exactly what you are getting. And it is inexpensive as audio equipment goes. Below is from the FAQ page of their website. I bought one of these along with the Loki EQ and Modi DAC for my HD800 and enjoyed it quite a bit.


You know, tube amps are bogus because they don’t measure well.
You know that’s technically not a question. But yeah, we said right up front this amp isn’t about doing -120dB THD+N. We have Magni Heresy and Magnius for that.
Well, this still doesn’t measure well. I don’t see the point.
Yeah. Gotcha. Totally clear.
So why do you bother making it, when you have amps that measure so much better?
Have you considered that maybe all great-measuring amps sound the same, and we’re all just looking for the right euphonic distortion?
Well, that’s crazy talk.
We agree. But here’s the thing: not all amps have to push the limits of our test equipment. And this one certainly doesn’t, not with distortion that’s 1,000-10,000x higher than Magni Heresy. In other words, yep, it measures like a typical tube amp. It even has typical tube amp type distortion—lots of second harmonic, with third and fourth falling off sharply afterwards. If you want, you can download the APx555 report on this amp, where all that is laid bare. You may also notice that, despite the high distortion, the noise floor of this amp is pretty darn low, so you’re getting that tube distortion without the hummmmmmmmmm that might make listening on sensitive headphones a pain in the rear end. And, given that, if you’re curious about tube sound, you might come to the conclusion this is a fun, inexpensive way to check it out. Or you could just decide you want an amp with great measurements. Both are cool as far as we’re concerned.
1,000-10,000x higher distortion? Are you nuts?
To keep this short, yes and most probably.
With distortion that high, you’re definitely going to hear it!
Yeah, you’d think so, right? But when we threw the old Vali 2 (not 2+) into a level-matched blind test with Magni 3+ and Magni Heresy, it was pretty darn difficult to tell them apart! Vali 2 measures even worse than Vali 2+--I mean, it’s like -40dB THD+N for a lot of loads. Compare to -106 to-115 for Magni 3+ and Heresy. Pretty bonkers, right? But when you factor in that most transducers (headphones) are going to be -40dB to -60dB themselves, suddenly you may understand why it was harder to hear a difference than you’d expect.
Okay, enough about distortion. How about noise?
We already said Vali 2+ is a very, very quiet tube amp. Low gain will be plenty quiet for most headphones, including IEMs.
And power?
It’s got decent power. It may not be ideal, say, for Susvaras and stuff like that, which are super hard to drive. Beyond that, yep, it’s a great little tube amp that you can use with almost anything.
Low impedance stuff is fine?
Yep, plenty of current for those.
And high impedance, 300, 600 ohms?
Yep, tons of voltage swing for those.
So do those preamp outputs mute when I plug my headphones in?
Yes, they do.
You go on and on about how you can change to different tubes, but what if I don’t want to change tubes all the time?
You don’t need to change tubes at all. The stock 6BZ7 is a really nice, tested, sorted, ensured-its-really-matched tube from New Old Stock (those are really old, unused tubes, to be super specific).
Why would I want to change tubes?
Some people love to experiment. If you’re one of them, you’ll be thrilled to know you can use a whole bunch of different tubes in Vali 2+, including 6DJ8, 6922, ECC88, 2492, 6N1P, 6CG7 and even more. Pretty much any tube with a 6DJ8 pinout, 6V heater, and 600mA or less of heater current will work fine.
I’m new to tubes, how long do they last?
About 5,000 hours, give or take. Probably longer in Vali 2+, since the tubes are run very conservatively. And…don’t panic. Humans lived for decades with only this electronic technology at their disposal. We even went into space and stuff with it.
And when the tube goes bad?
You replace it. We sell single 6BZ7 tubes for $10. Or you can try one of those other tube types we mentioned above.
So you probably cheaped out and left the protection off this amp, or something stupid like that, right?
No. Vali 2+ has a relay mute for delayed startup and fast shut-down.
What’s the big deal about the power supply? 60V doesn’t seem like a lot for a tube.
Have you asked the other guys what they’re running the tube plate at? We’re running a full 60V on the plate (not the rail). This is plenty for the tube types we recommend, and it is far in excess of many amps selling for much more than Vali 2+.
How can you deliver those high volts? I bet it’s a switching supply!
Think again. Vali 2+’s power supply is 100% linear, with regulation on every voltage rail. A unique wall-wart with 2 AC voltages allows us to provide for the needs of the tube heater, the low-voltage rail for the output, and the high-voltage rail for the tube. You may have noticed the funny DIN-plug connector on the amp. Hey, at least you won’t mistake this wall-wart for anything else!
What the heck is Vali?
In Norse mythology, Vali is the son of Odin and the giantess Rindr. There’s this amazing resource called Wikipedia. You may have heard of it.
I want a combined DAC/amp! Why didn’t you put a DAC in here?
We did. It’s just in a different chassis and costs another $99 or $249. It’s called “Modi" or "Modi Multibit." Stack with Vali 2+ for a combined tube hybrid DAC/Amp.
 
Last edited:

Matias

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To be fair to the Schiit guys, they tell you exactly what you are getting.

Except this part is not true as we see a -90 dB hum:

"You may also notice that, despite the high distortion, the noise floor of this amp is pretty darn low, so you’re getting that tube distortion without the hummmmmmmmmm that might make listening on sensitive headphones a pain in the rear end."
 

Vini darko

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To be fair to the Schiit guys, they tell you exactly what you are getting. And it is inexpensive as audio equipment goes. Below is from the FAQ page of their website. I bought one of these along with the Loki EQ and Magni DAC for my HD800 and enjoyed it quite a bit.


You know, tube amps are bogus because they don’t measure well.
You know that’s technically not a question. But yeah, we said right up front this amp isn’t about doing -120dB THD+N. We have Magni Heresy and Magnius for that.
Well, this still doesn’t measure well. I don’t see the point.
Yeah. Gotcha. Totally clear.
So why do you bother making it, when you have amps that measure so much better?
Have you considered that maybe all great-measuring amps sound the same, and we’re all just looking for the right euphonic distortion?
Well, that’s crazy talk.
We agree. But here’s the thing: not all amps have to push the limits of our test equipment. And this one certainly doesn’t, not with distortion that’s 1,000-10,000x higher than Magni Heresy. In other words, yep, it measures like a typical tube amp. It even has typical tube amp type distortion—lots of second harmonic, with third and fourth falling off sharply afterwards. If you want, you can download the APx555 report on this amp, where all that is laid bare. You may also notice that, despite the high distortion, the noise floor of this amp is pretty darn low, so you’re getting that tube distortion without the hummmmmmmmmm that might make listening on sensitive headphones a pain in the rear end. And, given that, if you’re curious about tube sound, you might come to the conclusion this is a fun, inexpensive way to check it out. Or you could just decide you want an amp with great measurements. Both are cool as far as we’re concerned.
1,000-10,000x higher distortion? Are you nuts?
To keep this short, yes and most probably.
With distortion that high, you’re definitely going to hear it!
Yeah, you’d think so, right? But when we threw the old Vali 2 (not 2+) into a level-matched blind test with Magni 3+ and Magni Heresy, it was pretty darn difficult to tell them apart! Vali 2 measures even worse than Vali 2+--I mean, it’s like -40dB THD+N for a lot of loads. Compare to -106 to-115 for Magni 3+ and Heresy. Pretty bonkers, right? But when you factor in that most transducers (headphones) are going to be -40dB to -60dB themselves, suddenly you may understand why it was harder to hear a difference than you’d expect.
Okay, enough about distortion. How about noise?
We already said Vali 2+ is a very, very quiet tube amp. Low gain will be plenty quiet for most headphones, including IEMs.
And power?
It’s got decent power. It may not be ideal, say, for Susvaras and stuff like that, which are super hard to drive. Beyond that, yep, it’s a great little tube amp that you can use with almost anything.
Low impedance stuff is fine?
Yep, plenty of current for those.
And high impedance, 300, 600 ohms?
Yep, tons of voltage swing for those.
So do those preamp outputs mute when I plug my headphones in?
Yes, they do.
You go on and on about how you can change to different tubes, but what if I don’t want to change tubes all the time?
You don’t need to change tubes at all. The stock 6BZ7 is a really nice, tested, sorted, ensured-its-really-matched tube from New Old Stock (those are really old, unused tubes, to be super specific).
Why would I want to change tubes?
Some people love to experiment. If you’re one of them, you’ll be thrilled to know you can use a whole bunch of different tubes in Vali 2+, including 6DJ8, 6922, ECC88, 2492, 6N1P, 6CG7 and even more. Pretty much any tube with a 6DJ8 pinout, 6V heater, and 600mA or less of heater current will work fine.
I’m new to tubes, how long do they last?
About 5,000 hours, give or take. Probably longer in Vali 2+, since the tubes are run very conservatively. And…don’t panic. Humans lived for decades with only this electronic technology at their disposal. We even went into space and stuff with it.
And when the tube goes bad?
You replace it. We sell single 6BZ7 tubes for $10. Or you can try one of those other tube types we mentioned above.
So you probably cheaped out and left the protection off this amp, or something stupid like that, right?
No. Vali 2+ has a relay mute for delayed startup and fast shut-down.
What’s the big deal about the power supply? 60V doesn’t seem like a lot for a tube.
Have you asked the other guys what they’re running the tube plate at? We’re running a full 60V on the plate (not the rail). This is plenty for the tube types we recommend, and it is far in excess of many amps selling for much more than Vali 2+.
How can you deliver those high volts? I bet it’s a switching supply!
Think again. Vali 2+’s power supply is 100% linear, with regulation on every voltage rail. A unique wall-wart with 2 AC voltages allows us to provide for the needs of the tube heater, the low-voltage rail for the output, and the high-voltage rail for the tube. You may have noticed the funny DIN-plug connector on the amp. Hey, at least you won’t mistake this wall-wart for anything else!
What the heck is Vali?
In Norse mythology, Vali is the son of Odin and the giantess Rindr. There’s this amazing resource called Wikipedia. You may have heard of it.
I want a combined DAC/amp! Why didn’t you put a DAC in here?
We did. It’s just in a different chassis and costs another $99 or $249. It’s called “Modi" or "Modi Multibit." Stack with Vali 2+ for a combined tube hybrid DAC/Amp.
I like the sass.
 

Eldus

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If you want to find out if you like distortion in your audio playback, then you can use Equalizer APO and some VST plugin. There are free ones, even tube emulators.
Do you have any favorites?
 

H-713

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I've never been big on the whole "cheap tube amp" thing. If you want to do tubes right, it's going to be pricey. Not too many manufacturers doing tubes well, unfortunately.
 

Mojo Warrior

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A perfect example of "great analog sound"

Warm sounding tubes, more "realistic" than SS or digital gear, etc

Reminds me of my first turntable from 50 years ago

[sarcasm]
 

sarumbear

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Not too many manufacturers doing tubes well, unfortunately.
I am looking forward to the day when @amirm has his hands on a new model McIntosh tube amplifier.
 

sarumbear

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Except this part is not true as we see a -90 dB hum:

"You may also notice that, despite the high distortion, the noise floor of this amp is pretty darn low, so you’re getting that tube distortion without the hummmmmmmmmm that might make listening on sensitive headphones a pain in the rear end."
At 50mV it was 60dB, which is pretty loud.
 
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virtua

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I've never been big on the whole "cheap tube amp" thing. If you want to do tubes right, it's going to be pricey. Not too many manufacturers doing tubes well, unfortunately.

Doing tubes right by designing a tube amp well for good measurements is going to result in an amplifier that realistically sounds no different from any solid state amplifier. The only real benefit is that it looks pretty. Designing a more expensive, more complicated tube input and output amp for the tube effect isn't going to make much difference either as long as the harmonics are there to be heard. This amplifier was created to exploit the harmonic distortion people associate with a tube sound with as little of the downsides as possible. However, most amplifiers which try to do this don't really push the second and third harmonics up to a level where it's clearly apparent. Even the Schiit questions about this amplifier say that if there's anything in it, its pretty hard to tell.
 
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