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Topping Pre90 Review (preamplifier)

Harmonie

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I've noticed with this pre-amp that output volume is louder if output is set to RCA + XLR instead of just just one or the other (RCA OR XLR). This happens when either input (RCA or XLR) is selected. Anyone else notice this?

Instead of subjective appreciation, why don't you measure it very simply with a multimeter ?
 

Kal Rubinson

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According to John Yang:
"When set to balanced/XLR output only, 0dB is 0dB.
When set to RCA + XLR, 0dB is referenced to RCA out, XLR is 6dB louder. "
 

glc650

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Instead of subjective appreciation, why don't you measure it very simply with a multimeter ?
Why the hell would I do that? There's nothing subjective about it. While listening to a song on RCA output I switched to RCA+XLR output and the volume clearly increased. I had to turn it down. And the vol level on the dial for both outputs was the same to start. Do you use a volt meter every time you change the volume on your pre-amp?

According to John Yang:
"When set to balanced/XLR output only, 0dB is 0dB.
When set to RCA + XLR, 0dB is referenced to RCA out, XLR is 6dB louder. "
If I'm listening to a song while on RCA output and switch to RCA+XLR why would the vol go up? Based on your info I could understand hearing an increase in vol if it was the other way around (listening while output to XLR and then switching to RCA+LXR) but why would it make a difference in my case? Guess I need to try it the other way around and see what happens.
 
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nelamvr6

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I pulled the trigger on a Pre90, it is currently en route to me.

Can someone tell me please if the Pre90's remote is unique from the D90SE's remote? I'm wondering if I have my Pre90 and D90SE stacked, and then point the Pre90's remote at the stack and try to cycle through the inputs, is my D90SE also going to start cycling through its inputs?
 

glc650

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I pulled the trigger on a Pre90, it is currently en route to me.

Can someone tell me please if the Pre90's remote is unique from the D90SE's remote? I'm wondering if I have my Pre90 and D90SE stacked, and then point the Pre90's remote at the stack and try to cycle through the inputs, is my D90SE also going to start cycling through its inputs?
My Pre90 and D90SE aren't stacked but they are sitting side by side and I don't have that issue using my Harmony hub-based remote. The IR receivers are awful on my Topping devices (I have to use individual blasters for each and stick the sender right under the receiver) so maybe that is why. Only my Marantz SR8012 and Sony X800M2 have worse IR. I use the auto brightness setting on both so the displays dim after 30 seconds and when I go to wake one of them up I noticed the other will usually wake up as well but so far things like on/off and input/output selecting hasn't been affected/mixed up.
 

nelamvr6

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My Pre90 and D90SE aren't stacked but they are sitting side by side and I don't have that issue using my Harmony hub-based remote. The IR receivers are awful on my Topping devices (I have to use individual blasters for each and stick the sender right under the receiver) so maybe that is why. Only my Marantz SR8012 and Sony X800M2 have worse IR. I use the auto brightness setting on both so the displays dim after 30 seconds and when I go to wake one of them up I noticed the other will usually wake up as well but so far things like on/off and input/output selecting hasn't been affected/mixed up.

Thanks!
 

Epos7

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Would the Pre90 play nice with the following inputs?

Rega Apollo CDP
VPI Traveler TT via Rega Mira 3 phono stage
Denon AVR-X3700H pre outs
As yet undetermined DAC

I'd like to feed the Pre90 output into a Purifi amp.
 

SKR

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No offence but the "listening > measurements" things goes a little against ASR no? Might as well go full objective :p

So far I've read many anecdotal 'Pre90 sounds superb, better than much more expensive pre-amps' and the odd 'Pre90 doesn't work in my set-up'. Could be impedance matching issues. Or in case of weird channel tracking, possibly a defective unit? I'm sure it won't work in every set-up imaginable but so far I've seen mostly very positive feedback on the Pre90's sound and usability.
I bought D90SE first and didn’t like it. Than I bought PRE90 and didn’t like it too. But I didn’t lose hope and kept on playing. It appears both D90 SE and Pre90 need long break in time May be around 250 to 300 hours May be more to sound their best.
Now my combo of D90SE and PRE90 is sounding great.
To be frank initially I felt dejected and felt that the positive reviews were biased. But you need to have patience for the combo or Pre90 to sound their best.
 
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simplywyn

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How is the Pre90's volume? My biggest gripe with D90 is it's volume ticker... (not sure what to call it)

It goes from 0-100% before you can hit no, tapping it is laggy and doesn't go up fast, and holding it blows my ear drums in 0.5ms

How does Pre90's volume work? Does the knob rotate when you go up in volume? I'm hoping it's far better than the D90.
 

SKR

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Ahh, HALO P6, and HINT 6 without the 'P', a bit confusing. Both are huge overkill solutions - and nothing like the purity of the Pre90+Ext solution, at least that's how I see it.

And, I did see the NewClassic 200 Pre and shrunk down NewClassic 200 Integrated with a Class D AMP, after I started exploring the rest of the site, but they both include a DAC so I ruled them out, pretty much also overkill solutions compared to the Pre90+Ext, but thinner.

The P6 has Home Theater Bypass, but it also has a DAC, so I ruled that one out as a Pre90+Ext alternative.

The JC2 BP doesn't have a DAC, but it does have the Home Theater Bypass feature which is the subject of the missing feature - the Pre90-Ext doesn't have Home Theater Bypass. Size differences aside, similar to the NewClassic 200 Pre features, minus the DAC.

I am looking for an integrated AMP, actually just an AMP, but the pricing is such that I might as well get some source switching features too, but I don't need another DAC, so for me the HINT 6 is closer to what I am looking for than the Pre90+Ext - without an AMP. The Hint 6 is overkill for what I need as well.

I don't see how any of the Parasound products with all of their complexity of features compare to the simplicity - purity - of the Pre90+Ext...
How is the Pre90's volume? My biggest gripe with D90 is it's volume ticker... (not sure what to call it)

It goes from 0-100% before you can hit no, tapping it is laggy and doesn't go up fast, and holding it blows my ear drums in 0.5ms

How does Pre90's volume work? Does the knob rotate when you go up in volume? I'm hoping it's far better than the D90.
I agree that volume control on Pre90 is not that perfect when using its remote.
That could be the only minus point in Pre90. They need to improve the remote control unit and remote mechanism and make it better responsive and sensitive for better management of volume.
But for me it’s not that bad going from 0-100%. May be you need to get used to it.
 

Harmonie

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I bought D90SE first and didn’t like it. Than I bought PRE90 and didn’t like it too. But I didn’t lose hope and kept on playing. It appears both D90 SE and Pre90 need long break in time May be around 250 to 300 hours May be more to sound their best.
Now my combo of D90SE and PRE90 is sounding great.
To be frank initially I felt dejected and felt that the positive reviews were biased. But you need to have patience for the combo or Pre90 to sound their best.


Maybe there is indeed a break-in period after all
Could it be that this break-in period represents the necessary time for your brain to get accustomed at last, to a sound without distortion that you were used to before?
 

SKR

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Maybe there is indeed a break-in period after all
Could it be that this break-in period represents the necessary time for your brain to get accustomed at last, to a sound without distortion that you were used to before?
No Sir I don’t agree to this concept of brain getting accustomed to. In my opinion and from 40 years experience I can say with certainty than every audio equipment including cables need burn in time.
Those claiming brain getting accustomed to the sound are ignorant or not good listeners who can’t differentiate between pre and post burn in sound.
 

VeerK

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No Sir I don’t agree to this concept of brain getting accustomed to. In my opinion and from 40 years experience I can say with certainty than every audio equipment including cables need burn in time.
Those claiming brain getting accustomed to the sound are ignorant or not good listeners who can’t differentiate between pre and post burn in sound.

lol, this is a hilarious position to take on AudioSCIENCEReview
 

simplywyn

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No Sir I don’t agree to this concept of brain getting accustomed to. In my opinion and from 40 years experience I can say with certainty than every audio equipment including cables need burn in time.
Those claiming brain getting accustomed to the sound are ignorant or not good listeners who can’t differentiate between pre and post burn in sound.

Yeah, it's your brain burning into it. Trust me. I'm almost 100% sure that's the case. Burn-in exists in the brain.

I'm an electrical engineer, if burn in was real, it would've been a class. The world of electrical engineering is real and analogue at the end of the day (digital isn't really digital if you get my gist). A square wave isn't even a square wave, it's made up of a bunch of sine waves... to make up 0 -> 1, anyway besides the point... We look at really detailed stuff, and burn in isn't really real otherwise I would've taken a course on how to correct my designs for burn in.

Can you imagine if I designed a radar that required 100hrs burn in for it to be as accurate as tested? If it was real, my prof would've mentioned in during our digital signal processing courses.

I'm 100000% certain burn-in happens in the brain.

Components do burn in, I agree, but not to the degree that you can tell. And we do burn-in tests to TEST components for failure points, not to get better signal out of them.

I deal with a lot of detailed stuff during designing systems for signal processing, and speakers are really lousy actually. I'm talking about a bluetooth antenna that operates at 2.4ghz, and if what you say about burn in is true, then it should be creating HUGE differences at those frequencies, yet I don't see them, but somehow in the 0-20khz frequency, it makes a big deal? I don't buy it.

I’ll throw some crazier things:
if burnin was real your laptop won’t be full speed until hundreds of hours into it.
if burnin was real, you won’t be able to transfer files as fast on your router until it’s been on for hundreds of hours
if burning waa real, your physical hard drive would literally be slow until the disks warmed up
if burning was real your smart phone would be slow until hundreds of hours later, your speakers would be weird until hundreds of hours of hsage
 
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Rottmannash

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I'm a neurobiologist. If adaptation and desensitization were not real, they would not have been included in many courses. :cool:
(I just could not resist.)
Agree. Btw enjoyed your article on Dirac in Stereophile.
 

ex audiophile

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I agree that volume control on Pre90 is not that perfect when using its remote.
That could be the only minus point in Pre90. They need to improve the remote control unit and remote mechanism and make it better responsive and sensitive for better management of volume.
But for me it’s not that bad going from 0-100%. May be you need to get used to it.

Clearly the volume control has yet to burn in.
 

simplywyn

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I'm a neurobiologist. If adaptation and desensitization were not real, they would not have been included in many courses. :cool:
(I just could not resist.)

If burn in was real, there would be an ENTIRE industry dedicated to burning in industrial level applications of what we do here. I'm sure Apple would pay several billion dollars for a company that does burn-in better than the next company if it means their A15 chips are that much faster than the competition.

Some things that I do agree exist:

1) large woofers need break-in, like maybe a few hours to loosen, but post those there is nothing more. My SVS subwoofer was pretty crap when I first bought it but after a few hours, it really opened up.
2) mechanical things do have a break-in period, but it doesn't last too long, and well engineered mechanical items have very little break in period. So as you go up to more expensive, the break-in period should be less not longer.
3) mechanical also have a warmup period as well that’s independent of break-in.
4) electrical circuits have no moving parts.
 
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Pdxwayne

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If burn in was real, there would be an ENTIRE industry dedicated to burning in industrial level applications of what we do here. I'm sure Apple would pay several billion dollars for a company that does burn-in better than the next company if it means their A15 chips are that much faster than the competition.

Some things that I do agree exist:

1) large woofers need break-in, like maybe a few hours to loosen, but post those there is nothing more. My SVS subwoofer was pretty crap when I first bought it but after a few hours, it really opened up.
2) mechanical things do have a break-in period, but it doesn't last too long, and well engineered mechanical items have very little break in period. So as you go up to more expensive, the break-in period should be less not longer.
3) mechanical also have a warmup period as well that’s independent of break-in.
4) electrical circuits have no moving parts.
My e30 took about 10 minutes before the voltage output is stable. Even John young of Topping said that d30pro took about 10 minutes to stabilize. Now, what are the parts responsible for the instability for the first 10 minutes?
 
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