• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Do inexpensive amplifiers age badly over years?

  • Thread starter Deleted member 9685
  • Start date

MakeMineVinyl

Major Contributor
Joined
Jun 5, 2020
Messages
3,558
Likes
5,871
Location
Santa Fe, NM
I'm sure that a dying capacitor would decrease audio quality, but I don't know whether a merely aging capacitor results in lower audio quality.

As far as I know, capacitors have shorter lifespan than other components which can last decades without an issue.
Electrolytic capacitors have a definite lifespan. Other types like film capacitors which would be used in audio circuits are like resistors and semiconductors which have an indefinite lifespan.
 
OP
D

Deleted member 9685

Guest
When do capacitors start affecting audio quality?
 

jasonhanjk

Active Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2019
Messages
252
Likes
180
For longevity. Change the supply cap to 50V version and with temp rating of 105deg C.
Many times cheap amplifier designer put their cap so near to the heatsink, which will shorten the cap lifespan very fast.

For same IC but different sound, the issue lies at the LC filter. Cheap manufacturer uses whatever inductor they can get and causes early distortion when power increases.
 
OP
D

Deleted member 9685

Guest
Many times cheap amplifier designer put their cap so near to the heatsink, which will shorten the cap lifespan very fast.

AIYIMA A07 interior.jpg


This is the interior of AIYIMA A07. Capacitors are next to the heatsink.
 

restorer-john

Grand Contributor
Joined
Mar 1, 2018
Messages
12,579
Likes
38,278
Location
Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia
This is the EVK from TI, look where they place their cap.

It's an evaluation module, not a commercial design.

Electrolytic filter capacitors should be placed as close to the high current switching devices as you can concievable get them. Any excess length of PCB track or wire will result in increased inductance and resistance- neither of which is helpful.

The Aiyima desin is fine, as long as their is adequate free air flow (I don't think there is) and a low heatsink temperature in normal operation.
 

MakeMineVinyl

Major Contributor
Joined
Jun 5, 2020
Messages
3,558
Likes
5,871
Location
Santa Fe, NM

Joe Smith

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Jan 4, 2019
Messages
982
Likes
1,027
Shame about that capacitor placement so near the heat sink. I don't play these amps very loud/full out, so they should still have decent life. I don't think we'll be using these items in 10+ years, something better chip-wise will have come along. (Just not the same as the 60s and 70s amps and receivers where decent sound + the appearance/nostalgia value can justify a full rebuilding.)
 

weasels

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2020
Messages
335
Likes
546
Location
Richmond, Virginia
At $50 to $75 for a replacement after five or more years of good use, who cares?

I am honestly torn between this sentiment and the desire to reduce electronics waste.

Happily, the Topping and Aiyama stuff I've bought to date has all functioned impeccably over time, so I haven't needed to make a choice between price and longevity.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MCH

Gregss

Active Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2021
Messages
160
Likes
208
Hello, Well, my take on this is that if you buy junk, it doesn't matter where it is made. There is junk made in pretty much every country there is. Also good stuff. Up to the consumer to evaluate the company, before spending their money. Has always been like that and likely always will.

Absolutely no shortage in the world of those who will take shortcuts and cheat to make money.
 

Snoopy

Major Contributor
Joined
Jul 19, 2021
Messages
1,628
Likes
1,206
Singxer SA1 headphone amp. Made in china.
 

Attachments

  • 2021-06-20_02.30.42-1.jpg
    2021-06-20_02.30.42-1.jpg
    304 KB · Views: 96

Roland68

Major Contributor
Joined
Jan 31, 2020
Messages
1,360
Likes
1,126
Location
Cologne, Germany
Singxer SA1 headphone amp. Made in china.
The Singxser SA-1 is one of the best examples of good and high quality devices from China with good components
SMPS from Mean Well, Alps Poti and Panasonic FM capacitors. Especially the FM capacitors show that Singxer idea about the components have. Better than any golden "audio grade" capacitors.
 

Roland68

Major Contributor
Joined
Jan 31, 2020
Messages
1,360
Likes
1,126
Location
Cologne, Germany
View attachment 153067

This is the interior of AIYIMA A07. Capacitors are next to the heatsink.
Don't worry, they are Chemi-Con GPA types at 125°, which last longer at this temperature than audio types at 85°. If the heat sink does not reach 100° during operation, it might last forever ...
Short distances were perhaps more important to the designer and that's why he chose these types.
 

Firebird71

New Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2021
Messages
3
Likes
1
Another aspect most people ignore is clean power. Starting with good surge protection in your home electrical wiring and a good power supply will keep your amps healthy and long living.
Hmmm, I don't know.... those 470D stickers aren't lined up perfectly, could affect the sound...
Lol
 

Bob-23

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2019
Messages
425
Likes
379
Location
Berlin, Germany
Except of electrolytic capacitors electronic components nearly don't age - and the basic components are cheap, very cheap indeed. (Enclosures, transformers, vol pots are the main cost factors.)

Design faults set aside, the quality of the solder joints plays a role, and leaded solder joints are supposed to live longer and crack less often than leadfree ones - and in my impression, the longevity of through hole components is better than the longevity of smd ones (not to mention repairability.) Take a look e.g. at northridgefix electronics repair (nice program for relaxation): failing capacitors (not electrolytics) en masse, through-hole capacitors (from wima, e.g.) nearly never fail.
 

preload

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
May 19, 2020
Messages
1,554
Likes
1,701
Location
California
View attachment 153067

This is the interior of AIYIMA A07. Capacitors are next to the heatsink.

Hang on, how can we be sure that the area adjacent to the heatsink heats up enough for it to be a problem?

Also I see plenty of compact devices where the chassis interior is hot everywhere (its not like heat doesn't travel). And I see electrolytic caps being used. The worst being in car stereo equipment. Without doing your own testing, how do you know it's an issue? Or that the cap location didn't solve another problem?

Or is it that the product was made in China and people automatically assumed it was designed incorrectly with zero detailed knowledge of the product other than an internet photo?
 

weasels

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2020
Messages
335
Likes
546
Location
Richmond, Virginia
Hang on, how can we be sure that the area adjacent to the heatsink heats up enough for it to be a problem?

Also I see plenty of compact devices where the chassis interior is hot everywhere (its not like heat doesn't travel). And I see electrolytic caps being used. The worst being in car stereo equipment. Without doing your own testing, how do you know it's an issue? Or that the cap location didn't solve another problem?

Or is it that the product was made in China and people automatically assumed it was designed incorrectly with zero detailed knowledge of the product other than an internet photo?

I have no horse in this race, but if it isn't hottest next to the heat sink that is probably indicative of a design problem by itself.

That said, design is all about tradeoffs and I agree that we lack the context regarding this particular tradeoff and assuming it's lazy/bad engineering is presumptuous.
 
Top Bottom