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Emotiva XMC-2 Review (AV Processor)

Newman

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...My general recommendation just to get the best Denon AVR for the budget and use its pre-outs remains unshaken.

You know, for the past year or two I have been developing the concept for my next-gen future audio system, and a high-performing AVP with XLR outs is central to it, and I am resistant to what you are saying, and I don't want you to be right.... but you are! :confused: Certainly at the sort of price point we are discussing here (also my price point), $3-5k.
 
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SplitTime

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Imagine if Denon were to take one of their units that measures decent (when the amplifiers are off) and (1) remove the amplifiers, (2) reduce the cost of the unit by the savings in the amplifiers. Wait, why sell a cheaper unit when people are presently forced to upgrade to the expensive units that enable them to turn the amplifiers off just to get the better performance? Amazing.
 

digicidal

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Imagine if Denon were to take one of their units that measures decent (when the amplifiers are off) and (1) remove the amplifiers, (2) reduce the cost of the unit by the savings in the amplifiers. Wait, why sell a cheaper unit when people are presently forced to upgrade to the expensive units that enable them to turn the amplifiers off just to get the better performance? Amazing.

Yeah, they really need to release a new AVP-A1HDCI based on their latest offerings. Sure it would likely be ~$7K this time around (if not more) but I think many of us would be inclined to justify it if they went ahead and included either a better Audyssey or (preferrably) Dirac REQ. Probably never going to happen because then it would dilute the Marantz marquee, since it would have to be better in every way than the 8805. :rolleyes:

Back when I bought Emotiva gear they were in a fairly unique position in the market - now that there are many more class-d offerings based on mass manufactured boards which are as/more powerful and better measuring... their "bread and butter" is not compelling. Even 10-12 years ago their non-amp offerings were not that appealing to me however, so probably not the one to ask.
 

jam

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Emotiva seems to be struggling; as an independent small company you'd like to see them succeed but I'm not certain they will. As I've mentioned here previously, they introduce and cancel production of products with alacrity. That's not something a potential buyer wants to see from a small independent company. Trying to build a modern AV processor may be too much of an undertaking for a company this size. Outlaw Audio, a similar independent recently cancelled production of their AV processor and has not announced any intention of building another one.
Yeah... me and a couple of other ASR members I've seen lurking around here were hoping to buy the Outlaw AV processor Model 997 with Trinnov until it got canned because of development complexities and unrealistic projected target costs and later their model 998 with Audyssey MultEQ XT32 when an unnamed larger competitor pulled the rug from under their feet by coercing their mutual manufacturer to deny production to Outlaw and they never made it to market.

Parasound also pulled out of the AVP/AVR market many years ago because of the constantly evolving HDMI and codec implementations, the associated complexity of development and related costs.
 

jam

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Needless to say, I can't recommend the Emotiva XMC-2. Get yourself a Denon AVR and use its pre-amp outs. Yes, you don't get balanced output but if you are not facing ground loops and connections are short, you should be OK. At least you get a working product with very respectable measurements.

Thanks for another great eye-opener Amir. Some months ago, I was contemplating the possibility of acquiring the XMC-2 or possibly the RMC-1L sometime in the future to replace my Marantz AV8801 but seeing how the development cycle was evolving at Emotiva after reading comments on their Emotiva lounge, I figured that it was best to stay away.

It's surprising at how little consistency there is accross models on what should theoretically be a commom design platform.

I'm also surprised you didn't receive a courtesy call from big Dan this time around. LOL :D
 

digicidal

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Some months ago, I was contemplating the possibility of acquiring the XMC-2 or possibly the RMC-1L sometime in the future to replace my Marantz AV8801 but seeing how the development cycle was evolving at Emotiva after reading comments on their Emotiva lounge, I figured that it was best to stay away.

We're in the same boat (I have two 8801's). Every time I get ready to pull the trigger I start thinking about it more rationally and decide that 100% more cost for ~10% better performance and/or more features isn't nearly as compelling a proposition as I initially thought.

Upgraditis is a chronic condition however... so we'll both probably succumb to it eventually. ;)
 

peng

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That is the latest main firmware so it appears that the measurement issues are not yet corrected in firmware.
This is a testament to the need to measure products and not just assume they perform.

It is also important to know the performance for the center channel, as well as the mains, with basic DSP processing engaged.

- Rich

On thing I would like to see is to always measure with analog input as well where applicable. That should probably avoid any negative effects that might have been FW related. Probably not all, but >90% I would think.
 

peng

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Lol, took Emotiva all of ~12 hours to lock the thread on their site about this result and threaten to ban anyone for starting a new one.

Not a good look…

Is it just locked but still viewable?
 

Lsc

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Or maybe, it isnt and you dont know or have noticed the difference?
Until i had something to compare it to, i too, my thinking was also misguided.
Maybe but I have compared it to other preamps.

Not sure why you would assume I didn’t. My XMC2 has served me well as I paid less than $2k for it. But this may be my last Emotiva processor (currently my 3rd), if they don’t deliver on DLBC. But otherwise, it just works for me.
 

RichB

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Is it just locked but still viewable?

Locked but visible.
It went off the rails with "is this guys a quack" but honestly, there were a number of defenders there.

Emotiva does not publish performance specifications so it is difficult to counter something with nothing.
The weird part, is you would assume there would be little difference on the mains.

Perhaps, there is a different power supply and cabling issues in a smaller case that led to the performance issues.
Given the RMC-1 issue was firmware correctable, there is always that possibility.

- Rich
 
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Koeitje

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Lol, took Emotiva all of ~12 hours to lock the thread on their site about this result and threaten to ban anyone for starting a new one.

Not a good look…
I've got to say that the comments from most users there are very reasonable. The fixes that resulted from Amir's earlier review clearly bought him credibility there.

And seems the reason it was closed was due to some guy not understanding what these measurements tell you and just flaming as a result of that.
 

muslhead

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I believe that site is not run by Emotiva. I thought they turned it over to a 3rd party to administrate. If so, then any actions are likely not a "look" of Emotiva's rather, just that of the admin to create order.
I could be wrong but I thought I remember them asking for donations to pay for the site admin
 
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Yeah... me and a couple of other ASR members I've seen lurking around here were hoping to buy the Outlaw AV processor Model 997 with Trinnov until it got canned because of development complexities and unrealistic projected target costs and later their model 998 with Audyssey MultEQ XT32 when an unnamed larger competitor pulled the rug from under their feet by coercing their mutual manufacturer to deny production to Outlaw and they never made it to market.

Parasound also pulled out of the AVP/AVR market many years ago because of the constantly evolving HDMI and codec implementations, the associated complexity of development and related costs.
I suspect support costs are through the roof on AVP/AVRs, too, and one bad AVP/AVR can do lasting damage to a brand.
 

RichB

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I believe that site is not run by Emotiva. I thought they turned it over to a 3rd party to administrate. If so, then any actions are likely not a "look" of Emotiva's rather, just that of the admin to create order.
I could be wrong but I thought I remember them asking for donations to pay for the site admin

The thread-close statement left the option to re-open solely to Emotiva.

- Rich
 

RichB

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I've got to say that the comments from most users there are very reasonable. The fixes that resulted from Amir's earlier review clearly bought him credibility there.

And seems the reason it was closed was due to some guy not understanding what these measurements tell you and just flaming as a result of that.

The vast majority of the posts were respectful. Just a couple of ridiculous and incendiary posters.
The normal reaction would be to delete there posts and thread ban.

- Rich
 

sealman

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I wonder what Amir's thoughts would be on the current problem with bass management in all the Emotiva prepros.
It is NOT a minor issue!
 

Dj7675

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Thank you. They still have no specs, two years later. How else can we interpret their actions other than they knew how bad the specs are and they want to hide them?
I waited for a couple months but since they never posted any specs or measurements of the XMC-2 I didn't order. In retrospect it turned out to be a good decision for me. I went with the X8500 which I used for almost 2 years and never had one issue with it. I am now using a Storm MK2 and enjoying it throughouly.
 

SimpleTheater

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IMO, AVP's are becoming so complicated that small companies simply can't make them - or if they do they are bug filled and don't meet expectations. The situation is a lot like cars, where a few high performance companies (Ferrari, Lamborghini, Porsche) were making expensive but great cars, only to be swallowed up by large corporations because the technology went far beyond their capabilities.

Is the audio equivalent of Elon Musk going to show up and start an amazing brand of audio equipment? I doubt it.
 
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