- Thread Starter
- #41
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Jitter with topping e30
- Thread starter billdylan
- Start date
Topping won't offer to replace it as you didn't buy it from Topping; you need to talk to the retailer as your contract is with them. This is standard consumer practice/law around the world. Tell the retailer that you cannot use the product for the purpose intended and ask them for a refund and keep this thread updated with how that goes so other people can decide whether they want to use that retailer based on your experience.
What is the problem here? Is it that the CS8416 is being expected to deal with really bad, out of spec levels of jitter, and failing? Or is the CS8416 a faulty design and cannot handle "normal" amounts? Or is the E30 using a bad implementation?
Does it matter? SPDIF performance is clearly degraded regardless of cause.
Thanks for the explanation. I fully realize that others will have the same issues sooner or later. I said as much already.
Sure but if the output from the source is out of spec then it's that which is faulty/should be returned, and the E30 is blameless.
Let’s hope LC89091 will do better then..
I'm sure LC89091 will do better somewhat. Please report back.
- Thread Starter
- #50
Fingers crossed...And Will report Back..
audio2design
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It is a large enough change that the model number should have been changed as well. Expecting a potential customer to pick up on a subtle web description is not remotely transparent. Topping is putting itself ahead of the customer. That works only short term.
- Thread Starter
- #52
Thank you ...I was getting to the point of thinking it was my fault For expecting more from Topping ..I am just a customer who should lighten up and have a good day..No one seemed to think ..just maybe ...it was toppings fault..?..
Ok. Thank you too.
If you have not read my responses anywhere else on the forum:
Since last year, I was already seeing reports of incompatibility of SPDIF input from both our and our competitors devices that use ESS's SPDIF receiver in the ESS DAC chips. In the winter time, I went and bought 7 cheapest that I could find+some existing USB to SPDIF converters. All of them except one which is just broken work with all of our DACs. And this is before AKM factory fire. So we have not switched to CS8416 on any product yet. The conclusion at the time was if these cheap converters could work. It is not a big concern.
Earlier this year after D30pro released, there are reports of CD players being incompatible. A test using AP's jitter generator was performed. At the time 30ns of jitter was still stable with CS8416 used in D30pro. So at that moment the conclusion was CD players can have extremely large jitter.
After some time complaints getting more and more. We purchased one CD player that's having issue with D30pro and tested it. It indeed didn't work. And the jitter of this CD player is high but not 30ns high. So there may be different issues. Nevertheless we tried increasing the PLL circuit's BW. It still didn't work. After some pairing with different devices. We found that any product with ESS's own spdif receiver, XMOS implementation of spdif receiver, Cirrus Logic's reciever don't work. This includes a few of our competitors. And we found LC89091 works with it. So after some extensive testing, it's later on used in D90SE.
E30 changed receiver around the time of production of D30pro. It's used at the time because we have used it before and we thought it's very stable due to no complaint in this issue from our older D30.
It is still not known what's exactly the issue. But from the information we got, majority of the devices work just fine. Some devices don't work. You could say why it works with other DACs. Then I could say why it is just this CD player doesn't work. Often time TV's spdif out can also have compatibility issure. If you look for reports from users. There are many reports of them working. And you know people only complains when things don't work. If majority of the time it doesn't work. Our customer service wouldn't be able to answer your email, would it?
Our current solution is to use LC89091 when we can. There is not a lot of stock either. So it's difficult. The best case scenario is we would be able to use AK4118 again next year. But that's still a question. There are also some reports of incompatibility of LC89091 but either it's actually much less or it's because D90se is more expensive. We don't know. We still have to continue evaluate the chip even.
- Thread Starter
- #54
Thanks for explaining your position that is much appreciated
it seems you now tell me about the problems topping are having with a product they continue to sell....wasting the time and money of people such as myself.
And then tell me to ..and I quote..."Just calm down and have a great day and enjoy life. ". merely for expecting some help from Toppings Service Department?....As I said in my earlier posts...meaningless platitudes ..and polite nothings until I go away....As for your interactions with me.in this forum.?...Well.....as a Company Employee there tone makes more sense to me now....
Regarding the 'New' Topping E30...It seems it works in some situations. but which ones we don't know yet....That isn't much of a recommendation for a $200 Piece of Electronics is it ?. Especially when it is been sold on the reviews of a product that it no longer matches in performance..
As for ." And you know people only complains when things don't work. If majority of the time it doesn't work. Our customer service wouldn't be able to answer your email, would it? " Is That an example of Toppings Customer service in action ?.
What a disappointment and terrible advertisement for your company this whole debacle has been.....I hope this whole thread saves the time and money of other prospective customers..
Thanks for all the support and Advice from the rest of the Audioscience review community.. Much appreciated
Bill Robinson
it seems you now tell me about the problems topping are having with a product they continue to sell....wasting the time and money of people such as myself.
And then tell me to ..and I quote..."Just calm down and have a great day and enjoy life. ". merely for expecting some help from Toppings Service Department?....As I said in my earlier posts...meaningless platitudes ..and polite nothings until I go away....As for your interactions with me.in this forum.?...Well.....as a Company Employee there tone makes more sense to me now....
Regarding the 'New' Topping E30...It seems it works in some situations. but which ones we don't know yet....That isn't much of a recommendation for a $200 Piece of Electronics is it ?. Especially when it is been sold on the reviews of a product that it no longer matches in performance..
As for ." And you know people only complains when things don't work. If majority of the time it doesn't work. Our customer service wouldn't be able to answer your email, would it? " Is That an example of Toppings Customer service in action ?.
What a disappointment and terrible advertisement for your company this whole debacle has been.....I hope this whole thread saves the time and money of other prospective customers..
Thanks for all the support and Advice from the rest of the Audioscience review community.. Much appreciated
Bill Robinson
- Thread Starter
- #55
Sorry ....me again i thought you all might enjoy one line from Toppings Service Centre's latest email regarding the Topping E30 With the new CS.8416 chip as opposed to the old AK chipped model ..
And I Quote...
.."The CS8416 have chosen a way: to reduce the fault tolerance to ensure a better output signal. AKM’s AK4118 chose another path: as compatible as possible with the input signal even if it is irregular or unstable ".
Finally !!...Guess that explains why it won't work with the 3 CD players and 3 DVD players I have tried
Draw your own conclusions guys...
Bill
And I Quote...
.."The CS8416 have chosen a way: to reduce the fault tolerance to ensure a better output signal. AKM’s AK4118 chose another path: as compatible as possible with the input signal even if it is irregular or unstable ".
Finally !!...Guess that explains why it won't work with the 3 CD players and 3 DVD players I have tried
Draw your own conclusions guys...
Bill
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That is completely incorrect.
Ignore that reply. And I just contacted the customer service person.
- Thread Starter
- #58
Hey John
If its incorrect you had better speak to toppings service centre...Thats a Quote taken from their last email reply....From ..Toppings service centre ...trust them to get it wrong...
As mentioned I just contacted them to correct this. So the misinformation won't be spread further. Nothing against you my friend.
- Thread Starter
- #60
Misinformation.?...man how many excuses do you have..Nothing against you personally either my friend..Thats the company you are affiliated withs Service centre responding......To quote you .."seriously" ?. Step up and sort out your products problem and get the company to respond to my Being stuck with your 'New'....E30..and Be Responsible.
As for the poor seller who sold me this in good faith..this is not his problem to have it returned ...this is Toppings problem ...Be straight up and do the right thing...
Bill
As for the poor seller who sold me this in good faith..this is not his problem to have it returned ...this is Toppings problem ...Be straight up and do the right thing...
Bill
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