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The decline and fall of Reflex.

thefsb

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Must be on Newbury Street in the Back Bay.
Newbury isn't the top tier of deluxe retail locations, Boylston at the 4 Seasons opposite the public garden is. But Leica is two intersections away on the corner of Arlington and Columbus in the Park Plaza hotel building, a relatively crummy hotel despite its nice old-timey entrances and lobby. A bit of a strange place to put the Leica shop, presumably a compromise based on rent.

https://goo.gl/maps/kNqS2GhYFu8YhNPf9
 

rdenney

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Newbury isn't the top tier of deluxe retail locations, Boylston at the 4 Seasons opposite the public garden is. But Leica is two intersections away on the corner of Arlington and Columbus in the Park Plaza hotel building, a relatively crummy hotel despite its nice old-timey entrances and lobby. A bit of a strange place to put the Leica shop, presumably a compromise based on rent.

https://goo.gl/maps/kNqS2GhYFu8YhNPf9

I have stayed at that hotel and shopped in that shop, but it wasn’t a Leica store then. The last Leica store I visited was in the Frankfurt Airport in a long layover connection between Geneva and Washington. I handled an S2 which was exquisite in the hands—far too precious for me.

Rick “still gets promotional emails from the Park Plaza” Denney
 

JJB70

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There is a Leica store very close to my old office in the City of London, I used to wonder if someone had a sense of humour putting such a shop virtually next door to the Bank of England.
 

thefsb

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The last Leica store I visited was in the Frankfurt Airport in a long layover connection between Geneva and Washington.
Expensive cameras in glass cabinets in German airports. This characteristic aspect of the West German culture is, I feel, somehow very important to understand. Even I wanted them when I lived and worked in Germany. I spend my DMs (it was shortly before Euro) on a BMW K1100RS instead. People, not just men, would stop to admire it. "Schöne Maschine." I'm still not sure what this aspect of the culture says about its people. The appearance of the spiritual in consumer objects representing high levels of engineering and design. Maybe a forum of audiophiles can shed some light on the matter.
 

JeffS7444

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Expensive cameras in glass cabinets in German airports. This characteristic aspect of the West German culture is, I feel, somehow very important to understand. Even I wanted them when I lived and worked in Germany. I spend my DMs (it was shortly before Euro) on a BMW K1100RS instead. People, not just men, would stop to admire it. "Schöne Maschine." I'm still not sure what this aspect of the culture says about its people. The appearance of the spiritual in consumer objects representing high levels of engineering and design. Maybe a forum of audiophiles can shed some light on the matter.
In the mid-1990s, my employer took on an intern from the former DDR, and we got to talking about photography. I proudly showed him my new Leica M6 outfit, but his reaction was simply "Oh yes Leica, very expensive", said with no great enthusiasm. I should have realized: For someone from the east, it was just an old-fashioned camera, whereas his Minolta Maxxum was the previously forbidden fruit!

I am not immune to luxury branding and cameras as fetish objects, but these days I mostly concern myself with features that might help me to take better photos, and not so much about brand or tradition. For the 5% of me that still likes that kind of thing, I got old film cameras and I do still shoot a modest amount of film, but I leave the pursuit of bigger-ticket items to others.
 

Wes

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Expensive cameras in glass cabinets in German airports. This characteristic aspect of the West German culture is, I feel, somehow very important to understand. Even I wanted them when I lived and worked in Germany. I spend my DMs (it was shortly before Euro) on a BMW K1100RS instead. People, not just men, would stop to admire it. "Schöne Maschine." I'm still not sure what this aspect of the culture says about its people. The appearance of the spiritual in consumer objects representing high levels of engineering and design. Maybe a forum of audiophiles can shed some light on the matter.

I could see that in Japan too.

And for some things in the US - Apple stores, Tesla stores...
 

thefsb

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And for some things in the US - Apple stores, Tesla stores...
Good point.

I remember when the glass Apple shop on Boylston opened I got a kick out of the immediate modification to make the glass staircase opaque as a result of customer feedback that some women found it discomforting. And the shiny, happy, smiling young people in their Apple tee-shirts pushing dusters across the glass floors to maintain the appearance of operating-room sterility. Insufferably smug support people but what option did they have with the job title Genius Barista?

And to get there I walk through the Pru from the entrance on Huntington, the route passing the former Tesla shop, in the now vacant location that the Microsoft shop was in until the plague of 2020. I never went into the Tesla shop, tried to not even look at it. The Microsoft shop was more fun than the Apple shop because they had all the Xbox stuff and more diverse staff and customers with less of a soma feel.
 
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Ron Texas

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Most digicams have that enabled by default but mechanical "second curtain" and reset is still loud. The trick is to scan the sensor so fast and so carefully that you don't need the mechanical shutter at all. This is the key feature of the Sony A9.

Fast scanning sensors will eventually proliferate to lower price points. The goal is to eliminate all mechanical parts in the camera body.
 

nerdstrike

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Say what you will about the demise of DX format, Nikon's microscopes are fantastic!

I'm confident that there's enough quality F-mount glass out there to keep me happy until my camera dies or I do.
 

rdenney

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Fast scanning sensors will eventually proliferate to lower price points. The goal is to eliminate all mechanical parts in the camera body.

(Edit: On reading my post this morning, sans the effects of a long drive followed by a relaxing two fingers of Bowmore, I hasten to add that I do understand you were responding to a specific statement, and I expanded it to a general diatribe.)

I agree that this the goal. All-software-driven-stuff means 1.) it only needs to work for two years before it can no longer be updated, 2.) updates are required to prevent it from attracting malware that will steal your identity, 3.) only software writers and brand stylists will be employed to make it, 4.) whatever art it produces will come from the mind of filter bots, 5.) technique and technical understanding will be further eschewed as being the domain of middle-aged fat guys.

Sounds great.

Rick “who’ll stick with three-dimensional machines for as long as possible, thanks” Denney
 
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rdenney

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Good point.

I remember when the glass Apple shop on Boylston opened I got a kick out of the immediate modification to make the glass staircase opaque as a result of customer feedback that some women found it discomforting. And the shiny, happy, smiling young people in their Apple tee-shirts pushing dusters across the glass floors to maintain the appearance of operating-room sterility. Insufferably smug support people but what option did they have with the job title Genius Barista?
...
This is what I mean by "brand stylists". Software-driven devices are not machines, and are not sold as machines. They are sold as personal fetish objects, with the intent that the buying and owning experience outweigh all other considerations.

An iphone is a combination of not very many modules: A screen, a battery, a couple of radios, and a bunch of software. Physical interfaces--buttons, i/o connections, headphone jacks--all that--are expensive because actual people (or the machines they make) have to physically make and put those things together and because they are slightly more likely to break and require hands-on warranty service, so they design out those things as much as possible. The more of that functionality that can be pushed to software, and the less that requires work in three dimensions, the better.

But many buyers (Naisbitt's "high-touch" population) want something physical. A smartphone has as little as possible that is actually physical, but the physical form is therefore the centerpiece of the sales effort. So, they hire first-class designers to make it look cool. Ergonomics are terrible, no matter what they say. My iphone 8 escaped the drawing board with the volume control opposite the sleep button, so that humans with opposing thumbs must contort their hands to press one without accidentally pressing the other. Their answer is to find ways to get rid of more buttons, and then force software updates that render the device useless long before it's physical life is up so that we have to "upgrade". This is also a cost-reduction strategy.

The first iphone was sold one what it could do--ads showed people using it. Now, Apple stores are all about image and buying experience, like high-end audiophile stores that sell stuff on the basis of myth and lore.

To me, the fundamental strategy of tech development is to eliminate the need for engineers altogether, except as a back-room exercise to come up with new tech from time to time. It's all about the branding.

Now, back to Leica. Leica has taken a page from the branding exercise, it is true. But their cameras are still traditional cameras. They have real physical controls that trained photographers will appreciate, and provide the user with technical controls that require experience and training to understand. They fit the hands. They are precious, by which I mean they succumb to what I see as the classic German engineering fault--they are too finely engineered to be manufactured and serviced easily and affordably--but they avoid the severity of German design that I see in, say, German wristwatches like the currently very popular Nomos brand.

In the dimension of machines favoring those with experience and training, the Pentax is the king. It has a range of physical controls that trained photographers can actually use. My 645z is an excellent camera, not just an excellent digital image capture system. But it is not a beginner's camera, nor is it aimed at those users who want or believe the software can replace their need to possess some technical skills. If we say that the DSLR is fading, it's because it's a throwback to cameras operated by those with training and experience, who are seen by those who don't have such as middle-aged fat guys or old men with white beards. That's all about image.

The mantra "f/8 and be there!" came from photojournalists (of the Vietnam War, as I recall) who claimed to eschew the dominance of technique over subject. Interpretations of Henri Cartier-Bresson's The Decisive Moment makes the same point. But don't for a minute believe that Cartier-Bresson or those photojournalist didn't understand the technical aspects of what they were doing. What they were saying is: Understand technique so well that you don't have to think about it consciously, and then focus on what is important: the subject.

The (nearly) whole of current photography equipment design has been trying to bury the technique into assistive (or user-replacement) software, so that the users can imagine themselves as artists rather than mere photographers. More and more, even the timing and pointing aspect is buried in software--now photographers are videoing events in 8K and then selecting decisive-moment stills from the video stream. As often as not, the person shouting "f/8 and be there!" doesn't know what "f/8" means or why it was used by those photojournalists. These are the same folks who imagine themselves experts in audio when they don't know the difference between frequency response and clipping.

Personally, I would love to own a Leica S2 with a range of lenses. I would vastly rather own that than the Hasseblad or the Fuji medium-format digital cameras, which are a further push in the direction software dominance over user-controlled machine. The Pentax 645z is now 7 years old, an eternity in technology. But it is still an extremely effective camera--still one of the best on the market. It has had such long legs simply because it is more machine than software, such that the age of the software in the machine is no hindrance to a trained photographer. A Fuji with only electronic viewing will not have such long legs, as demonstrated by Fuji now having three or four models in the series. But Fuji has proved that when the line is no longer meeting their business model, they will drop it. Pentax has been more devoted to its customers over the years, even if it means a smaller market and fewer updates.

(Ironically, the Pentax, despite its dominating focus on the three-dimensional machine, is the least expensive of any of them. That's perhaps because they don't keep changing it, but it's also because the knowledgeable are not as easily swayed by branding exercises.)

That said, Pentax and Nikon are the two companies that have adopted this trained-user-oriented approach, and are probably in the most trouble of the current major manufacturers.

Rick "for whom using a camera with serious intent is in part an expression of long years of learning" Denney
 
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Ron Texas

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(Edit: On reading my post this morning, sans the effects of a long drive followed by a relaxing two fingers of Bowmore, I hasten to add that I do understand you were responding to a specific statement, and I expanded it to a general diatribe.)

I agree that this the goal. All-software-driven-stuff means 1.) it only needs to work for two years before it can no longer be updated, 2.) updates are required to prevent it from attracting malware that will steal your identity, 3.) only software writers and brand stylists will be employed to make it, 4.) whatever art it produces will come from the mind of filter bots, 5.) technique and technical understanding will be further eschewed as being the domain of middle-aged fat guys.

Sounds great.

Rick “who’ll stick with three-dimensional machines for as long as possible, thanks” Denney

I'm waiting for the software update for my vice grips, duct tape and big ass screwdriver.
 

Blumlein 88

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I'm waiting for the software update for my vice grips, duct tape and big ass screwdriver.
The cpu for those tools tends decrease performance over time after initially improving for years.
 
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Ron Texas

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rdenney

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I can't even find my Vice-Grips.

Rick "or remember that I was looking for them when I went into the garage" Denney
 

JeffS7444

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I think people underestimate their ability to adapt to new things: If you replace your SLR with a mirrorless camera tomorrow, everything about the new camera may seem wrong for the first month, turning into grudging admiration for somewhat longer. But at some point, it becomes business as usual once again, and you'll struggle to remember what all the fuss was about.

And the transition from one lens mount to another doesn't need to be a big deal when lens adapters are available! Gradually phase in native glass where it seems advantageous to do so.

Despite being known as a consumer electronics and game-console company, Sony actually keeps their mid- and higher-end cameras in production for a surprisingly long time, and they'll sell you replacement parts. Between Sony and Olympus, I've got access to the lenses that I want. With the FF camera, I need to exercise a bit of restraint lest I wind up with a boat anchor of a system, but with M43, cost, rather than size and weight becomes the limiting factor.
 

Wes

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Now, back to Leica. Leica has taken a page from the branding exercise, it is true. But their cameras are still traditional cameras. They have real physical controls that trained photographers will appreciate, and provide the user with technical controls that require experience and training to understand. They fit the hands. They are precious, by which I mean they succumb to what I see as the classic German engineering fault--they are too finely engineered to be manufactured and serviced easily and affordably--but they avoid the severity of German design that I see in, say, German wristwatches like the currently very popular Nomos brand.

The mantra "f/8 and be there!" came from photojournalists (of the Vietnam War, as I recall) who claimed to eschew the dominance of technique over subject. Interpretations of Henri Cartier-Bresson's The Decisive Moment makes the same point. But don't for a minute believe that Cartier-Bresson or those photojournalist didn't understand the technical aspects of what they were doing. What they were saying is: Understand technique so well that you don't have to think about it consciously, and then focus on what is important: the subject.

Leica has the best aberrations. They are like a Nelson Pass amp...

The f/8 and be there thing is much older and from street photography - maybe in the 1950s. Dunno if Viet war photogs popularized it or not tho.
 

Wes

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I also have to wonder at what point superior ergonomic and haptic designs become "personal fetish objects"
 

rdenney

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I think people underestimate their ability to adapt to new things: If you replace your SLR with a mirrorless camera tomorrow, everything about the new camera may seem wrong for the first month, turning into grudging admiration for somewhat longer. But at some point, it becomes business as usual once again, and you'll struggle to remember what all the fuss was about.

And the transition from one lens mount to another doesn't need to be a big deal when lens adapters are available! Gradually phase in native glass where it seems advantageous to do so.

Despite being known as a consumer electronics and game-console company, Sony actually keeps their mid- and higher-end cameras in production for a surprisingly long time, and they'll sell you replacement parts. Between Sony and Olympus, I've got access to the lenses that I want. With the FF camera, I need to exercise a bit of restraint lest I wind up with a boat anchor of a system, but with M43, cost, rather than size and weight becomes the limiting factor.
No, actually, I think you (okay, maybe not you) are underestimating my ability to adapt, but also underestimating the value of the experience behind why I wouldn't want to.

If nothing else was available, maybe that's what I would use. Maybe I'd find another hobby. Who knows?

But as one old, white-bearded guy, I have the experience of having changed technologies far more than those who are young who think I'm incapable of it.

(By the way, Pentax came out with the first 645 in what, 1984? They are on version five of cameras in that mount, and still making them. The Pentax 67 came out in 1969, and Pentax kept them in production for 40 years, until 2009. In that period, Fuji's record shows cameras kept in production 15-20 years.)

Rick "who wrote his first online article about the digital darkroom in 1999" Denney
 

rdenney

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I also have to wonder at what point superior ergonomic and haptic designs become "personal fetish objects"

Hmmm. Cameras are used by hands, and they have to fit them.

I thought the original Olympus OM-1 was a great camera, but unusable by me because my big hands simply couldn't hold those tiny cameras comfortably.

The main reason I was attracted to specific models of Canon cameras was the thumbwheel on the back for adjusting aperture, in addition to the forefinger wheel on the top for shutter speed (among other things). My first camera with that feature was the T90, which I bought in the late 80's, right before Canon changed to the EF autofocus lens mount. The Canon autofocus cameras at the professional end still have that feature, and it's the one thing I miss on the Pentax.

A key aspect of a user interface is that it can be used during the use case for which it was designed. A well designed camera does not require me to take my eyes off the subject (in real time, not in screen-lag time) to make adjustments to the exposure or focus. This is not a fetish feature, but a response to requirements driven by real user needs.

When I operate my wife's Nikon D500, I find stuff works backwards compared to what I'm used to with Canon and Pentax. It's distracting. But if that's what I spent my time with, I'd get used to it. I would not, however, get used to having to make all my selections on a touch screen with my attention on where I have to put my fingers rather than on the subject.

For me, a fetish object is one that we carry for the sake of carrying it, not because we are actually using it for something important. I spend about ten minutes a day doing something important and intentional on my iphone. All the rest of the time I spend with it is a matter of habit, idle curiosity, or really just simple idleness. But I wouldn't be without it. That is a fetish object.

I know I used the term "fetish object" to describe the Leica, but I really think "precious" covers it better. Of course, for Gollum the two were the same.

Rick "not immune" Denney
 
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