Topping D90SE Review (Balanced DAC)

[Eddy H.]

It is really confusing situation as this one works with D30pro which uses CS8416 which was tested by us to be confirmed having worse compatibility than LC89091 used in D90se. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/bluesound-node-review-streamer.25578/
Maybe I'll let Amir know and ask him to test it with D90se. If this one works then maybe it's the other model's issue(this one is cheaper I afaik). It's still a bit early. I'll report back if we find anything.

My d30pro worked with the setting that let the Node adjust the output but my D90SE doesn't like it.

 

[JohnYang1997]

My d30pro worked with the setting that let the Node adjust the output but my D90SE doesn't like it.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...surements-of-bluesound-node-2i-streamer.6631/
Interestingly I just found this. Seems the issue to be more towards the blusound end. Although I'm not completely taking off the responsibility here. As discussed earlier in different threads it's a complicated issue and it's much more widespread than known.
EDIT: but that's input isn't it. Now I don't know.

 

[enricoclaudio]

The issue is present with MQA songs and when using Coax and/or Opt outs. Like I said, I had the same issue with a Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 Digital which I returned. The Pre Box S2 cut/ dropping with MQA songs is a well known issue and I hasn’t been fixed since it was reported back in 2018.

 

[respice finem]

How many dacs do you have on hand may I ask?

ATM, two. One top-end (RME) and newish, one "middle class" and old (MF). Can't say I would hear a difference in a level-matched and blind test. But certainly measure (both are tested here).
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...version-2-dac-and-headphone-amp-review.13379/
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...easurements-of-musical-fidelity-v90-dac.3787/
Way more can be measured than heard IMO, but the opposite is an illusion. If it wasn't so, this forum would make no sense.

 

[Eddy H.]

Mine doesn’t have that option:

View attachment 147434

This is what mine looks like.

 

[enricoclaudio]

This is what mine looks like.

Looks like they took out that option from the new NODE.

 

[David_M]

I sent a message to Topping ([email protected] & [email protected]) more than a week ago regarding the D90SE, and have not received a reply. I'm hoping some members here can chime in to support my questions and request, and encourage a constructive reply. I hope a firmware upgrade can provide the important feature I request.
Here's the message I sent:
"Dear Topping,

I'm considering purchasing a Topping D90SE DAC, however, it appears to not meet one of my minimum requirements -- which is a major disappointment since it seems to have everything else I want. So, I want to check with you, Topping, to see if I'm wrong, or perhaps it might be possible for Topping to improve the design to meet my requirements.

I see in the D90SE User Manual in Settings, item 11 Polarity Setting, however, I don't see any way to access this from the remote control, and the Settings Menu appears to only be accessible through a power cycle boot sequence. So it seems polarity is only a configuration setting, not available for change during play. Having polarity switching available from remote control during playback, along with an indicator on the display to show Normal or Inverted mode, is a MUST HAVE feature for me, and it should be for all audiophiles. There are lots of digital recordings, even MQA and TV/movies, that are in inverted polarity, and sound like poor recordings when played in normal polarity, but sound wonderful when inverted to play correctly.

Am I wrong about polarity switching not being available during play for testing polarity, correcting inverted polarity recordings and streams, and switching back to normal when that's needed?
If I am wrong, how can it be switched, and how is the mode shown on the display?
If I'm correct that it's not available now, can Topping add this highly important capability to the D90SE? Please, please, PLEASE!

Thanks for considering my questions and plea,
OB Ron"

@JohnYang1997 .... can you please answer this question above? I'm curious about it too.

 

[enricoclaudio]

Well, after 1 full day listening and testing the NODE + Topping D90ES combo, I have decided to get a RMA/refund for the D90ES. The D90ES does not like Roon at all. Feeding the D90ES with Coax or Opt out from the NODE and the ARCAM ST60, I get drops with any MQA song. It kinda reminds me the same issue I had with the Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 Digital. Also tried today with the D90ES via USB from a Lenovo M90n and as soon I start playing with Roon and group zones, the D90ES gets crazy and literally lose sync. Finally, to be honest, to my ears there is not discernible difference in SQ between the NODE internal DAC and the D90ES in my bedroom setup. If I do an A/B comparison in my living room setup, then difference becomes obvious, even when comparing the D90ES with the ARCAN ST60. Conclusion, for non critical listening, the NODE is just a fine player. BTW, @JohnYang1997 is totally aware of the issues I’m having with the D90ES in my system and he is the one who recommended me to ask the dealer for a RMA/refund. If the D90ES issues with Roon/MQA get resolved in a future firmware update, I would get it again in a heartbeat!! That good the D90ES is.

 

[rlwings]

Hey guys I just noticed that there is a new Window's driver available for the D90SE on the Topping website. From version 5.12 to 5.2 - Anybody know what changes have been made? - I don't see any changelog.

 

[Palex]

Well, after 1 full day listening and testing the NODE + Topping D90ES combo, I have decided to get a RMA/refund for the D90ES. The D90ES does not like Roon at all. Feeding the D90ES with Coax or Opt out from the NODE and the ARCAM ST60, I get drops with any MQA song. It kinda reminds me the same issue I had with the Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 Digital. Also tried today with the D90ES via USB from a Lenovo M90n and as soon I start playing with Roon and group zones, the D90ES gets crazy and literally lose sync. Finally, to be honest, to my ears there is not discernible difference in SQ between the NODE internal DAC and the D90ES in my bedroom setup. If I do an A/B comparison in my living room setup, then difference becomes obvious, even when comparing the D90ES with the ARCAN ST60. Conclusion, for non critical listening, the NODE is just a fine player. BTW, @JohnYang1997 is totally aware of the issues I’m having with the D90ES in my system and he is the one who recommended me to ask the dealer for a RMA/refund. If the D90ES issues with Roon/MQA get resolved in a future firmware update, I would get it again in a heartbeat!! That good the D90ES is.

Carefully read the instructions . Node has never digitally transmitted MQA ( Coax / Opt ). Node has its own DAC, MQA decoding is only for analog. Node and his BluOS, he doesn't like anything himself. The future of BluOS, the same as that of BlackBerry OS

 

[JohnYang1997]

Hey guys I just noticed that there is a new Window's driver available for the D90SE on the Topping website. From version 5.12 to 5.2 - Anybody know what changes have been made? - I don't see any changelog.

I know it may sound weird. Thesycon doesn't allow us to share changelog. However it seems someone is sharing changlog on the forum. You can search for it. I believe it's under D50s thread.

 

[enricoclaudio]

Carefully read the instructions . Node has never digitally transmitted MQA ( Coax / Opt ). Node has its own DAC, MQA decoding is only for analog. Node and his BluOS, he doesn't like anything himself. The future of BluOS, the same as that of BlackBerry OS

You are totally wrong my friend. The Node has always send MQA over digital outs.

 

[Eddy H.]

You are totally wrong my friend. The Node has always send MQA over digital outs.

View attachment 147577

View attachment 147578

The Node only does the first and second unfold over coax and optical.

 

[rlwings]

I know it may sound weird. Thesycon doesn't allow us to share changelog. However it seems someone is sharing changlog on the forum. You can search for it. I believe it's under D50s thread.

Thanks! - Found it...

v5.20 is out:
TUSBAudio - Thesycon USB Audio 2.0 Class Driver for Windows

"Revision History


-----------------------------------------------------
V5.20.0 (June 28, 2021)
-----------------------------------------------------

* New: support for Windows 10 (21H1)

* New: audio class 1.0: extract channel names from input terminal descriptor iChannelNames field

* New: API version 5.8

* Fix: initialization of auto stream format selection was missing

* Chg: Audio control interface for MIDI is optional

* Chg: Operating systems Windows 7, Windows 8 and Windows 8.1 are not longer supported
(Microsoft discontinued vendor signing)

* Chg: Documentation"

v5.20 is here now:
https://www.tpdz.net/newsinfo/538514.html

P.S. Be sure to turn off the DAC before attempting to install drivers or else you will end up in an endless 'restart' loop with drivers not installing... Also noticed that buffer settings are now more sensitive than the last driver. Look in Windows tray to find new driver control.

 

[SKR]

@JohnYang1997 I just bought D90SE after reading a very favourable review and few positive comments by actual users of D90SE about a month back. Before this I had D90MQA which was very musical. No doubly D90SE is much cleaner sounding and more transparent but in over all musicality I found MQA better. The sound stage, width and depth are lacking. These are my observations which others may not agree.
But here comes the big change in whole equation. I bought a Topping D90PRE also just a few days back. And this combination made the equation change in favour of D90SE. The combination sound very musical, very clean and transparent with much better stage and imaging.
So therefore I presume D90SE was made as a perfect mate for D90PRE and combination becomes a force to reckon with.
One more thing I want to request you. Please charge $25 or 50 more and give a decent Remote control system on D90PRE. I have to really struggle with the remote and I keep pressing volume buttons with full might to make the Pre90 unit to respond. Other than this D90PRE is a beautiful piece of equipment.

 

[Barryfromholland]

I love the bluesound Node and the bluesound App. Very user friendly and reliable.
I also have the topping d90se and it it a very clear upgrade in sound vs the internal Node DAC. (Via TosLink)
Bluesound promised to give an update soon that releases USB external DAC connection, so let’s hope this solves the MQA problem too.

 

[JohnYang1997]

D90se does support full decode (not just rendering) from spdif. One can try disabling the MQA setting.

 

[Eddy H.]

@JohnYang1997 I just bought D90SE after reading a very favourable review and few positive comments by actual users of D90SE about a month back. Before this I had D90MQA which was very musical. No doubly D90SE is much cleaner sounding and more transparent but in over all musicality I found MQA better. The sound stage, width and depth are lacking. These are my observations which others may not agree.
But here comes the big change in whole equation. I bought a Topping D90PRE also just a few days back. And this combination made the equation change in favour of D90SE. The combination sound very musical, very clean and transparent with much better stage and imaging.
So therefore I presume D90SE was made as a perfect mate for D90PRE and combination becomes a force to reckon with.
One more thing I want to request you. Please charge $25 or 50 more and give a decent Remote control system on D90PRE. I have to really struggle with the remote and I keep pressing volume buttons with full might to make the Pre90 unit to respond. Other than this D90PRE is a beautiful piece of equipment.

I have the same setup and I wish I could control the DAC and preamp with the same remote.

 

[Barryfromholland]

And thanks mr.Yang for informing users trough this forum!

my wish for already excellent topping dac‘s: bluetooth remote instead of the infrared.

my sound system is in a closed cupboard and invisible. So I had to install an infra red extender, not very nice.

My class D purify power amp generates very little heat, so closed cupboard installation is possible, wife is very happy. Only speakers in sight and still high end sound quality for me.

 

[Victor BR]

Hi guys. Any report on I2S input?