Listening test of 2 power amplifiers - files recorded for download - disclosed

[cany89]

@cany89
I can understand you well, as I am a hobby musician myself. I wouldn't put my headphones in the entry-level category, but there are definitely better ones. If you have the opportunity, just compare the files on an NAD M33. The M33 seem to be able to bring out the differences very well.
ABX makes absolutely no sense here!

Since you spared some time to reply, I’ll do my best and try my luck again! Thanks…

 

[Blumlein 88]

And if I would now say 16/16, would I then be more credible!? None of this makes any sense. But I don't seem to be the only one who has made the same perceptions (see also voting). I have already mentioned a possible objective comparison/test suite here: Link

From your writing, it would make me think you are the one person who voted they hear a difference without an ABX test. So far the only one if that was you.

Yes, if you had an ABX result of 16/16 it would be more credible. There appears to be very little reason this would be an easily heard or heard at all difference. Yet you say it is obvious. These are entirely typical responses of people who don't test themselves blind. Yet many are the times when you do get such people to blind compare using ears only suddenly these obvious differences are not found.

 

[Langston Holland]

I enjoyed your work on this @pma , oddly I did the same thing recently as you can see here.

It's clear to me on my system that witch2 is a bit more open and natural sounding than witch1, though both are very muffled sounding. I used an Audio Precision analyzer to do my amp test recordings and I think you may find them easier to make subjective and objective (DeltaWave) comparisons with. The amps involved are the Benchmark AHB2 and Hypex NC400.

My opinion: it's very likely that the majority of those who think there's no sonic differences between well designed amplifiers simply don't have the necessary tools to make such a judgment. I'm not talking about golden ears, I'm talking about high resolution, directivity controlled loudspeakers in a good listening environment. Until recently I didn't appreciate horn loaded loudspeakers. Done right they are vastly better than anything I've experienced before and gave me the ability to immediately hear the subtle, but real improvement of witch2.

God bless you and your precious family - Langston

 

[Blumlein 88]

I enjoyed your work on this @pma , oddly I did the same thing recently as you can see here.

It's clear to me on my system that witch2 is a bit more open and natural sounding than witch1, though both are very muffled sounding. I used an Audio Precision analyzer to do my amp test recordings and I think you may find them easier to make subjective and objective (DeltaWave) comparisons with. The amps involved are the Benchmark AHB2 and Hypex NC400.

My opinion: it's very likely that the majority of those who think there's no sonic differences between well designed amplifiers simply don't have the necessary tools to make such a judgment. I'm not talking about golden ears, I'm talking about high resolution, directivity controlled loudspeakers in a good listening environment. Until recently I didn't appreciate horn loaded loudspeakers. Done right they are vastly better than anything I've experienced before and gave me the ability to immediately hear the subtle, but real improvement of witch2.

God bless you and your precious family - Langston

There is enough FR difference between the amps it is probably borderline audible. Wouldn't expect big differences, but one sounding a wee bit different than the other. You have like .3 db over a few octaves difference in FR.

 

[b4nt]

Also, the way I sensed a difference is not the same as you. I sense channel imbalance difference, not sound quality difference.

I'm sorry for you, you shall have heared much better, since last week, you are getting deaf on one side

 

[Pdxwayne]

I'm sorry for you, you shall have heared much better, since last week, you are getting deaf on one side

That is all I could do with my chain of E30, L30, and AKG k371 headphones. I am not going deaf. There indeed was an imbalance.

; )

How about you? Your ABX results?

 

[b4nt]

How about you? Your ABX results?

I'm deaf on both sides, insensitive to diffs. What is ABX?

 

[b4nt]

@pkane @pma Naive question again. Do you know how to use that tools and plugins? https://www.sonicvisualiser.org/

@pkane You know me now. I clicked around using the BBC plugins. That may show more about differences in recordings?

 

[pogo]

My opinion: it's very likely that the majority of those who think there's no sonic differences between well designed amplifiers simply don't have the necessary tools to make such a judgment.

I totally agree and as it looks, finally a usable setup.
„Testing is not incorrect in what it measures, but in what it does not measure. You have to swim against the stream to reach its source.“

 

[pogo]

From your writing, it would make me think you are the one person who voted they hear a difference without an ABX test. So far the only one if that was you.

Yes, I was the first to vote that way.

 

[pogo]

Until recently I didn't appreciate horn loaded loudspeakers. Done right they are vastly better than anything I've experienced before and gave me the ability to immediately hear the subtle, but real improvement of witch2.

I can fully agree here. I am not only a fan of my loudspeakers (I have owned them for 30 years) but also a fan of Avantgarde Acoustic. They can bring out such differences the best.

 

[pogo]

There is enough FR difference between the amps it is probably borderline audible. Wouldn't expect big differences, but one sounding a wee bit different than the other. You have like .3 db over a few octaves difference in FR.

In my view, this is a minor point. Much more important is the swing-in/out behavior with complex music at complex loads and how an amplifier responds to it. A primitive test signal on a static load cannot give the whole truth.

 

[pogo]

@Langston Holland
Have you already had experience with the following test suite for your device?:
sound_quality_algorithms

 

[b4nt]

I am not going deaf. There indeed was an imbalance.

; )

How about you?

I beleive I'm not only deaf. I got also blind? Or I may have to reinstall Windows.

[This view is a bit experimental ] The Stereo Azimuth view shows a stereo plan decomposition of the audio. The vertical scale covers the stereo plan from left-channel-only at the bottom to right-channel-only at the top, and the intensity level indicates what proportion of signal energy is found at that point on the plan at each moment. The view assumes that the file has two channels containing left and right channel signals.

 

[pkane]

I beleive I'm not only deaf. I got also blind? Or I may have to reinstall Windows.

[This view is a bit experimental ] The Stereo Azimuth view shows a stereo plan decomposition of the audio. The vertical scale covers the stereo plan from left-channel-only at the bottom to right-channel-only at the top, and the intensity level indicates what proportion of signal energy is found at that point on the plan at each moment. The view assumes that the file has two channels containing left and right channel signals.

View attachment 147259

Pretty!

 

[Blumlein 88]

In my view, this is a minor point. Much more important is the swing-in/out behavior with complex music at complex loads and how an amplifier responds to it. A primitive test signal on a static load cannot give the whole truth.

It wasn't a primitive static test signal. The FR was derived from the music file. FR is a first order difference our hearing is sensitive to hearing. The results so far failed showing dramatic differences in transient response. You can probably hear the FR differences without invoking something exotic going on.

 

[pjug]

I enjoyed your work on this @pma , oddly I did the same thing recently as you can see here.

It's clear to me on my system that witch2 is a bit more open and natural sounding than witch1, though both are very muffled sounding. I used an Audio Precision analyzer to do my amp test recordings and I think you may find them easier to make subjective and objective (DeltaWave) comparisons with. The amps involved are the Benchmark AHB2 and Hypex NC400.

My opinion: it's very likely that the majority of those who think there's no sonic differences between well designed amplifiers simply don't have the necessary tools to make such a judgment. I'm not talking about golden ears, I'm talking about high resolution, directivity controlled loudspeakers in a good listening environment. Until recently I didn't appreciate horn loaded loudspeakers. Done right they are vastly better than anything I've experienced before and gave me the ability to immediately hear the subtle, but real improvement of witch2.

God bless you and your precious family - Langston

This is great. What is the track you used? Also, what is the approx peak voltage in the recordings? Sorry if you already said what these are in the other forum.

You said you are not willing to do ABX, right?

 

[pjug]

@pkane it seems that using a synchronized DAC and ADC in these recordings gives better results in DeltaWave. I assume because then any phase difference in the recordings is an exact number of samples. Before trying any of this I assumed this wouldn't matter too much since the software can deal shifting a fraction of a sample, but in fact it does seem to matter. But maybe I'm not understanding what is happening. Do you have thoughts on this?

@pma your DAC and ADC are synchronous, correct?

@Langston Holland your DAC and ADC are not synchronous, correct?

 

[Blumlein 88]

So off we go. Sighted listeners hear differences and self confirm each other. So the assumption is made what they are hearing is real. Can't do or won't do any abx testing however.

 

[b4nt]

@pkane @Blumlein 88 May you see what that tool set all features, and how deep it goes in details? Clicking around, I didn't so far find an evident diff between witch1/2.

https://www.sonicvisualiser.org/ (Devised and developed in the Centre for Digital Music, Queen Mary University of London)

This is using BBC tools, for energy plots, I beleive. You would better know how to use and read that. Output seem here different, but for a "valley" plot: