Choosing speakers for a small room

[Reed]

I'm going to start the search for some new speakers and I'd like some help but I'm not looking for speaker recommendations. I have a 11'x10'x10' dedicated listening room (see graphic). I sit with my head about 18" away from the back wall but I have some decent absorption on it. I can also move my chair forward as needed but I do not want a near field setup, more like a 6'-7' equilateral triangle. I'm interested in the effect of sidewall reflections and how they relate to directivity, listening axis and dispersion. Speaker A (let's call it KEF LS50) was designed to be listened to off axis. Speaker B (let's call it Genelec 8030c) was designed to be listened to on axis. Let's assume both speakers have smooth directivity. It looks like speaker B would have more direct sound since the listening position is forward of the reflection I have drawn. Does that seem right and is it a concern? Should speakers that do well on axis have an advantage in this room? And what about dispersion? Is narrow better here to control sidewall reflections or does smooth directivity make that concern moot? I have Dirac in my system so I do have some equalization leeway. Thanks for your thoughts. Just don't tell me to find another room.

 

[daftcombo]

I have a pair of 8030C in a room similar to yours (6m^2) and it is very sufficient.

 

[Reed]

I have a pair of 8030C in a room similar to yours (6m^2) and it is very sufficient.

Thanks for that. I’m trying to work a situation where I can audition both the 8030 and the meta in my room. I am trying to understand the science behind what I hear when that happens. I currently listen to Magnepan MMGs and they have no sidewall issues but a bucket of other issues. Trying to make an educated decision.

 

[Senior NEET Engineer]

You'll need to just listen to both and figure out what you prefer. Both measure good enough.

Try experimenting with sidewall absorption. I liked it better in narrow room.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

My room is 12 x 12, have the Metas, the Purifi Eigentact, Dirac Live, and a single SVS SB 2000, and I'm very happy with the sound.

 

[YSC]

everytime I saw this type of post and can't resist to click in and see the definition of "small room" and found that it's half the size of a lot of flats here...

 

[Chromatischism]

I'm going to start the search for some new speakers and I'd like some help but I'm not looking for speaker recommendations. I have a 11'x10'x10' dedicated listening room (see graphic). I sit with my head about 18" away from the back wall but I have some decent absorption on it. I can also move my chair forward as needed but I do not want a near field setup, more like a 6'-7' equilateral triangle. I'm interested in the effect of sidewall reflections and how they relate to directivity, listening axis and dispersion. Speaker A (let's call it KEF LS50) was designed to be listened to off axis. Speaker B (let's call it Genelec 8030c) was designed to be listened to on axis. Let's assume both speakers have smooth directivity. It looks like speaker B would have more direct sound since the listening position is forward of the reflection I have drawn. Does that seem right and is it a concern? Should speakers that do well on axis have an advantage in this room? And what about dispersion? Is narrow better here to control sidewall reflections or does smooth directivity make that concern moot? I have Dirac in my system so I do have some equalization leeway. Thanks for your thoughts. Just don't tell me to find another room.

View attachment 145116

I have 7.5ft triangle. IME and IMO, both types of speakers will work well, however I think speakers that are designed to be listened to off-axis yet have very good side reflection quality will create a bigger soundstage.

 

[Thomas_A]

I'm going to start the search for some new speakers and I'd like some help but I'm not looking for speaker recommendations. I have a 11'x10'x10' dedicated listening room (see graphic). I sit with my head about 18" away from the back wall but I have some decent absorption on it. I can also move my chair forward as needed but I do not want a near field setup, more like a 6'-7' equilateral triangle. I'm interested in the effect of sidewall reflections and how they relate to directivity, listening axis and dispersion. Speaker A (let's call it KEF LS50) was designed to be listened to off axis. Speaker B (let's call it Genelec 8030c) was designed to be listened to on axis. Let's assume both speakers have smooth directivity. It looks like speaker B would have more direct sound since the listening position is forward of the reflection I have drawn. Does that seem right and is it a concern? Should speakers that do well on axis have an advantage in this room? And what about dispersion? Is narrow better here to control sidewall reflections or does smooth directivity make that concern moot? I have Dirac in my system so I do have some equalization leeway. Thanks for your thoughts. Just don't tell me to find another room.

View attachment 145116

I would use speakers sitting close to the absorber panels, toed in, firing the opposite direction, and use normal furniture for the rest of the room. If speakers are adjustable for near wall position and wall gain, even better.

 

[Reed]

I would use speakers sitting close to the absorber panels, toed in, firing the opposite direction, and use normal furniture for the rest of the room. If speakers are adjustable for near wall position and wall gain, even better.

The absorbers are behind me and they do tame a good deal of echo. Carpet on floor. The room is basically bare except for my chair.

 

[Reed]

I have 7.5ft triangle. IME and IMO, both types of speakers will work well, however I think speakers that are designed to be listened to off-axis yet have very good side reflection quality will create a bigger soundstage.

This is getting at my real question. As room size gets smaller, are sidewall reflections a benefit or problem? If those reflections make the room seem bigger then maybe it’s not an issue to worry about.

 

[Chromatischism]

This is getting at my real question. As room size gets smaller, are sidewall reflections a benefit or problem? If those reflections make the room seem bigger then maybe it’s not an issue to worry about.

I think off-axis quality becomes more important.

 

[YSC]

This is getting at my real question. As room size gets smaller, are sidewall reflections a benefit or problem? If those reflections make the room seem bigger then maybe it’s not an issue to worry about.

IMO with my really tiny room of 9 feet *5 feet those becomes mostly unpredictable and needs measurement and experiment in placement and listening position to obtain good in room FR. when a room this small the ceiling and floor bounce basically is non-existence and from various measurements Amirm have done, these shapes the final FR in listening position, so hard to generalize and give suggestion

 

[Chromatischism]

when a room this small the ceiling and floor bounce basically is non-existence

Why would that be?

 

[YSC]

Why would that be?

I just think somehow before the non-bass frequencies goes reflected back the front and rear walls are already back, which I think mess up what normally considered ceiling/floor bounce effect?

 

[Inner Space]

I'm going to start the search for some new speakers and I'd like some help but I'm not looking for speaker recommendations. I have a 11'x10'x10' dedicated listening room (see graphic). I sit with my head about 18" away from the back wall but I have some decent absorption on it. I can also move my chair forward as needed but I do not want a near field setup, more like a 6'-7' equilateral triangle. I'm interested in the effect of sidewall reflections and how they relate to directivity, listening axis and dispersion. Speaker A (let's call it KEF LS50) was designed to be listened to off axis. Speaker B (let's call it Genelec 8030c) was designed to be listened to on axis. Let's assume both speakers have smooth directivity. It looks like speaker B would have more direct sound since the listening position is forward of the reflection I have drawn. Does that seem right and is it a concern? Should speakers that do well on axis have an advantage in this room? And what about dispersion? Is narrow better here to control sidewall reflections or does smooth directivity make that concern moot? I have Dirac in my system so I do have some equalization leeway. Thanks for your thoughts. Just don't tell me to find another room.

View attachment 145116

I hear what you're saying about speaker B's reflections bypassing the listener, but you could get the same effect from speaker A by rotating it clockwise, until the left-side 15-degree off-axis hits the listener - i.e. toed in to cross the main axes in front of the LP. So I wouldn't see a necessary choice between them.

More worrying are the two identical room dimensions, with the third being very close. I would drop the ceiling to 8'6", with a cosmetic finish, and fill the void above with a 165 cu ft bass trap. Seriously, it would make a worthwhile difference.

 

[Chromatischism]

I just think somehow before the non-bass frequencies goes reflected back the front and rear walls are already back, which I think mess up what normally considered ceiling/floor bounce effect?

I think the distance from floor and ceiling are still less than the back wall.

 

[Frgirard]

I'm going to start the search for some new speakers and I'd like some help but I'm not looking for speaker recommendations. I have a 11'x10'x10' dedicated listening room (see graphic). I sit with my head about 18" away from the back wall but I have some decent absorption on it. I can also move my chair forward as needed but I do not want a near field setup, more like a 6'-7' equilateral triangle. I'm interested in the effect of sidewall reflections and how they relate to directivity, listening axis and dispersion. Speaker A (let's call it KEF LS50) was designed to be listened to off axis. Speaker B (let's call it Genelec 8030c) was designed to be listened to on axis. Let's assume both speakers have smooth directivity. It looks like speaker B would have more direct sound since the listening position is forward of the reflection I have drawn. Does that seem right and is it a concern? Should speakers that do well on axis have an advantage in this room? And what about dispersion? Is narrow better here to control sidewall reflections or does smooth directivity make that concern moot? I have Dirac in my system so I do have some equalization leeway. Thanks for your thoughts. Just don't tell me to find another room.

View attachment 145116

You have a cubic room. The worst situation.
An headphone would be preferable.
Sorry

 

[YSC]

I think the distance from floor and ceiling are still less than the back wall.

for my room... no, back wall is closer

 

[Frgirard]

I just think somehow before the non-bass frequencies goes reflected back the front and rear walls are already back, which I think mess up what normally considered ceiling/floor bounce effect?

No. With the reflection from celling and floor, you can add a bad modal support and the pregnancy of the mode,the backwall too near...
Avoid the floor bounce with a sub or speakers with woofer near the floor.

This room is cubic. The worst situation.

 

[YSC]

No. With the reflection from celling and floor, you can add a bad modal support and the pregnancy of the mode,the backwall too near...
Avoid the floor bounce with a sub or speakers with woofer near the floor.

This room is cubic. The worst situation.

luckily mine isn't, and measurement result shows quite ok response, but then regarding OP, in such use case measurements tells more than guessing