Review and Measurements of Schiit Yggdrasil V2 DAC

[svart-hvitt]

Yes, people get so insulted when you say they are being fooled. Saying that doesn't imply a lack of intelligence or any insult.

These measurements are accurately repeatable both by the AP and most of the gear under test to a level in the few millionths of a volt. Impressive even for the "bad" ones.

Currently reading a book about Precision and its unacknowledged importance to the modern world we live in. Starts with a time when the idea was not even used. Shows some key times the 'invention' and advancement of precision opened up important new capabilities to human society. Sort of the history of the idea of precision diffusing into our world. Millionths of a volt, timing good enough to differentiate how long it takes light to travel the length of my hand, all in very affordable consumer level gear to the point it can be a hobby for many thousands if not millions of people.

Well, we could go further. When I say people lie, they get insulted.

I lie many, many times a day. We’re all liars, in some sense. Yet, we get insulted when this is pointed out.

How we’re neurally networked to maintain a certain image of ourself is interesting.

More important than not being fooled or not being a liar is asking the question:

WHY AM I A FOOL/A LIAR IN THIS SPECIFIC SITUATION?

Then you can go on and maybe change behaviour, though changing behaviour doesn’t seem like a natural thing for humans to do.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Well, we could go further. When I say people lie, they get insulted.

I lie many, many times a day. We’re all liars, in some sense. Yet, we get insulted when this is pointed out.

How we’re neurally networked to maintain a certain image of ourself is interesting.

More important than not being fooled or not being a liar is asking the question:

WHY AM I A FOOL/A LIAR IN THIS SPECIFIC SITUATION?

Then you can go on and maybe change behaviour, though changing behaviour doesn’t seem like a natural thing for humans to do.

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool. So you have to be very careful about that. After you’ve not fooled yourself, it’s easy not to fool other scientists. You just have to be honest in a conventional way after that.

I would like to add something that’s not essential to the science, but something I kind of believe, which is that you should not fool the layman when you’re talking as a scientist. I’m not trying to tell you what to do about cheating on your wife, or fooling your girlfriend, or something like that, when you’re not trying to be a scientist, but just trying to be an ordinary human being. We’ll leave those problems up to you and your rabbi. I’m talking about a specific, extra type of integrity that is not lying, but bending over backwards to show how you’re maybe wrong, that you ought to do when acting as a scientist. And this is our responsibility as scientists, certainly to other scientists, and I think to laymen."

Richard Feynman

snippage from Caltech Commencement 1974.

 

[rebbiputzmaker]

Oh, I misspoke. The owner had given me these iFi AC iPurifier devices to test. I had thought there were series devices, i.e. you plug something into them. But no, they are parallel noise filters. So I could add them to the power strip which fuels both the Audio Precision analyzer and Schiit Yggdrasil. I will do a much more extensive review of them later but for now, this is what is claimed: https://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-ac-ipurifier/

Even though it doesn't have *any* attenuation at 10 kHz (start of the graph), it is supposed to make my audio sound better? I don't think so. But let's measure the Schiit Yggy with it and see how it does.

This is a high-resolution (256k point) averaged (4 times) FFT:

View attachment 13628


Definitely no reduction. Indeed if you squint there was more noise (in red) prior to plugging it in but that is probably run to run variation.

I performed another test which was to have a running chart showing THD+N distortion at very high magnification (vertical scale) and plugged in the AC iPurifier half-way in the middle and then let it stay there until the end:

View attachment 13629

Not a thing happened. Those tiny up and downs are natural variations from the device/measurement.

As it should be. No device this tiny can have a prayer of filtering audio band frequencies. And even if it did, it would have to then reduce the noise internal in the unit by significant amount which again, it has no prayer of doing so.

Owner was kind enough to give me three so I will test them together and see what happens.

For now, this is a "plus" for Schiit Yggdrasil that it is of no need of AC tweaks. It does what it does without such.

They are not really serious devices.

 

[svart-hvitt]

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool. So you have to be very careful about that. After you’ve not fooled yourself, it’s easy not to fool other scientists. You just have to be honest in a conventional way after that.

I would like to add something that’s not essential to the science, but something I kind of believe, which is that you should not fool the layman when you’re talking as a scientist. I’m not trying to tell you what to do about cheating on your wife, or fooling your girlfriend, or something like that, when you’re not trying to be a scientist, but just trying to be an ordinary human being. We’ll leave those problems up to you and your rabbi. I’m talking about a specific, extra type of integrity that is not lying, but bending over backwards to show how you’re maybe wrong, that you ought to do when acting as a scientist. And this is our responsibility as scientists, certainly to other scientists, and I think to laymen."

Richard Feynman

snippage from Caltech Commencement 1974.

Still, I don’t know how good Feynman is to be used as a man of «rounded corners». He could be quite square headed when talking about social scientists. I wonder how Feynman would talk about psychoacoustics?

I believe our beloved @Cosmik is a Feynman fan?

My view is I think balance and holistic thinking - in lack of a better term - is better.

But now we’re way off-topic, though I think we’re long finished discussing whether Schiit is shit or gold for the price they demand for their products.

 

[Purité Audio]

Ifi Schitt so very appropriate.
Keith

 

[Blumlein 88]

 

[έχω δίκιο]

Yes, people get so insulted when you say they are being fooled. Saying that doesn't imply a lack of intelligence or any insult.

It’s interesting to contrast people’s responses when going between the auditory and visual realms.

If you show someone, through precise measurements, how they hear differences that aren’t really there, they will likely get angry and defensive. But if you show that same person a series of images that cause them to perceive concentric circles a spiral, straight lines as bowed, and white dots that appear to “blink’ to black, they cheerfully share the images with others as ‘really cool optical illusions.’

 

[Frank Dernie]

My soldering is not that great either.

In that case I wouldn't hire you to populate circuit boards.

 

[rebbiputzmaker]

In that case I wouldn't hire you to populate circuit boards.

I would not hire myself either!

 

[garbulky]

Given the first three days are the largest, and given the measured results so far, would you say listening matches with measurements?

Hard to say. I haven't listened to an Ygdrassil though I would like to. I wouldn't know how to correlate the measurements to my or other people's subjective perception. If you were to go with these measurements show that there can be no audible difference, then, I suppose you'd have to say that the listening reports disagree with the measurements. I don't think we've come that far in regards to mapping what people describe to measurements with high accuracy and specificity. We've come a ways. But hopefully there will be more progress in the future.

 

[Jinjuku]

Hard to say. I haven't listened to an Ygdrassil though I would like to. I wouldn't know how to correlate the measurements to my or other people's subjective perception. If you were to go with these measurements show that there can be no audible difference, then, I suppose you'd have to say that the listening reports disagree with the measurements. I don't think we've come that far in regards to mapping what people describe to measurements with high accuracy and specificity. We've come a ways. But hopefully there will be more progress in the future.

This is what I would like to be able to do: You can install "Stereo Patch Mix" in Windows and then connect two DACs and send the same stereo stream to both. This would allow for A/B testing were we generate a random A/B pattern for switching and with your biases controlled for let you evaluate.

Have one that's been powered on for 3 weeks and another for 10 minutes.

 

[Theo]

If you show someone, through precise measurements, how they hear differences that aren’t really there, they will likely get angry and defensive.

I am offended.... These are actual spirals and bent lines... I know what MY eyes are seeing, It is just that your measurements don't tell the whole story. Don't try to fool me...
And, BTW, how did you make that gif file showing black dots to act randomly?

 

[amirm]

They are not really serious devices.

The owner of this devices uses it and he says it makes an audible improvement. You are saying he is wrong?

 

[Blumlein 88]

I am offended.... These are actual spirals and bent lines... I know what MY eyes are seeing, It is just that your measurements don't tell the whole story. Don't try to fool me...
And, BTW, how did you make that gif file showing black dots to act randomly?

You should see the circle with the pink and yellow dots moving. If I knew where to nab it I'd post it.

 

[rebbiputzmaker]

The owner of this devices uses it and he says it makes an audible improvement. You are saying he is wrong?

Did not say he was wrong, just IMO isolation or even regeneration is the proper way to clean power.

 

[amirm]

Did not say he was wrong, just IMO isolation or even regeneration is the proper way to clean power.

Clean? Do you have before and after measurements of your implementation of such?

 

[rebbiputzmaker]

Clean? Do you have before and after measurements of your implementation of such?

In such a scenario measures are unnecessary IMO. Common knowledge and accepted practice are all that is needed. Does one need to test their hands after washing for bacteria levels, or do we just know that it is something that we do as part of proper hygiene? Same would hold true in this instance if one is looking to eliminate all possible variables.

 

[Sir Sanders Zingmore]

Did not say he was wrong, just IMO isolation or even regeneration is the proper way to clean power.

I think the “clean power” argument is a red herring. There are plenty of Yggy owners who do not have devices to clean their power and yet still claim superior performance.

 

[rebbiputzmaker]

I think the “clean power” argument is a red herring. There are plenty of Yggy owners who do not have devices to clean their power and yet still claim superior performance.

Nobody is talking about a specific item of equipment or test, just general proper practice. Who is speaking about what people say? How does that apply to this conversation?

 

[Blumlein 88]

On the one hand, some certain devices may perform better with power isolation. On the other hand, most people don't use it, and you'd be testing in a way that might make something look better than it normally does without isolation. Plus you'd fail to differentiate between devices needing isolation vs better designed gear that doesn't benefit from it.