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What do you Benchmark fans/users think?

restorer-john

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Side note, pretty interesting to see no one is even close on the SINAD charts in terms of power amps, even after all this time. There's a clear noticeable bump over ever other power amp measured. Why the industry is so nonchalant about Benchmark reigning like a King is beyond me (then again with the amount of shovelware that ends up doing fine on the market, it's not really much of a surprise).

Halcro. Go look them up. Check out a few Stereophile reviews. They've been doing better amplifiers than Benchmark for decades. Seriously, the Benchmark is a toy alongside their gear. And, their latest models are even better.

From Bruce Candy- Minelab. His fun offshoot back in the day to keep himself amused.
 

Tks

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Halcro. Go look them up. Check out a few Stereophile reviews. They've been doing better amplifiers than Benchmark for decades. Seriously, the Benchmark is a toy alongside their gear. And, their latest models are even better.

Which one has a greater SINAD exactly?
 

Purité Audio

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restorer-john

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restorer-john

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I'm asking which model, not which of the two companies.

Doesn't matter. Their current models (the mono and the 2 ch) leave the baby Benchmark in the weeds. It's just a kid's amplifier by comparison.

Back in 2002, nearly 20 years ago, Halcro showed everyone how to design amps with the DM58. Then Candy built the DM88. If you've ever seen, listened, and touched one, you wouldn't even question. Dredge up some technical reviews and weep.

Now we have the Halcro Eclipse mono and stereo. Built by the original engineers and improved. Choose your poison if you think they are a bad option when it comes to true state of the art in amplification. But, be prepared to be eating a truckload of humble pie in the harsh spotlight of hindsight, should you dismiss their superiority.

Sure, they are a truckload of money, but not a lot compared to much other supposed SOTA gear. But, I know what I would be buying.
 

rdenney

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Doesn't matter. Their current models (the mono and the 2 ch) leave the baby Benchmark in the weeds. It's just a kid's amplifier by comparison.

Back in 2002, nearly 20 years ago, Halcro showed everyone how to design amps with the DM58. Then Candy built the DM88. If you've ever seen, listened, and touched one, you wouldn't even question. Dredge up some technical reviews and weep.

Now we have the Halcro Eclipse mono and stereo. Built by the original engineers and improved. Choose your poison if you think they are a bad option when it comes to true state of the art in amplification. But, be prepared to be eating a truckload of humble pie in the harsh spotlight of hindsight, should you dismiss their superiority.

Sure, they are a truckload of money, but not a lot compared to much other supposed SOTA gear. But, I know what I would be buying.
What, is this guy your brother-in-law?

What are the test results? Miles ahead of a SINAD of 120 dB? How much is miles? 10 dB? Just curious.

Rick "a link or two to those old articles would be nice" Denney
 

Tks

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Doesn't matter. Their current models (the mono and the 2 ch) leave the baby Benchmark in the weeds. It's just a kid's amplifier by comparison.

Back in 2002, nearly 20 years ago, Halcro showed everyone how to design amps with the DM58. Then Candy built the DM88. If you've ever seen, listened, and touched one, you wouldn't even question. Dredge up some technical reviews and weep.

Now we have the Halcro Eclipse mono and stereo. Built by the original engineers and improved. Choose your poison if you think they are a bad option when it comes to true state of the art in amplification. But, be prepared to be eating a truckload of humble pie in the harsh spotlight of hindsight, should you dismiss their superiority.

Sure, they are a truckload of money, but not a lot compared to much other supposed SOTA gear. But, I know what I would be buying.

I understand you like the aesthetic of this brand (I think it's a bit silly, and a bit out-there if I had people over wondering wtf I got set up in my living room). But I'm just confused. Where are the SINAD comparisons? Maybe I'm just illiterate, but looking at some of the measurements on Stereophile, I'm not seeing how this is as superior.

The new stuff on the site is just a big question mark.

The DM88 (the supposed top spec of the time), I took a look at measurements quickly to see what I can compare with in terms of Amir's metrics

THD+N into 4 ohm for example (since I'm not seeing straight up SINAD comparisons):

806H88FIG05.jpg


index.php


Likewise the IMD of 19+20kHz doesn't seem to be there either (though I don't think it can be directly compared between the two measured strictly as I'm not sure what level Amir measured it.

Even the Frequency Response isn't better, down more than -3.5dB at 200kHz compared to -3dB for the Benchmark. Granted the newer stuff on their site claims it's down 3dB between 7Hz-215kHz, so I suppose it wins there. Though the Benchmark is only down .03 @ 20Hz, so perhaps better (don't know since Halcro claims -1dB for (7-90kHz)

SNR seems close with the new stuff (based on website claims, not actual measurements though), though the older DM88 flagship doesn't seem like it matches the Benchmark tbh.

Maybe you can help me, but I'm just not seeing it in a few metrics I felt I could somewhat look at and compare.. Excuse me if I misread anything and skipped over something obviously superior.

Oh one thing to mention. The cost of these amps are lunacy, I'm not sure why this is even a comparison. I guess I was intrigued since you said there was a better SINAD measured amp out there (I haven't seen one) so I was interested. In reality though, you'd have to really be pulled by the aesthetics to get this thing over a Benchmark or two. Because the supposed performance being as superior as you postulate isn't as evident as one would assume a lower 4-figure product would be compared to a middling to upper end 5-figure product.
 

Monte

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Umm, the Halcro aesthetics could be could be more egregious than the Benchmark, and are not stackable. The Halcro reminds me of the Cray 1. I could enjoy either. Put all the sound production gear in a room adjacent to where you listen so you don't see them. Music sounds better that way anyway.
 

Spkrdctr

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I see the entire problem causing buyer remorse. It is a two channel system. Getting out of the prehistoric times to a modern AVR and all of these issues go away. As Pres Biden says "Come on man!" Get with the future, multi channel sound. You will be glad you did.
 

ldarieut

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Yes, the first time I went to asr, I looked at the charts and I saw benchmark was the top dog. I checked google and was appalled by the design.
Not matching heat sink color/faceplate and chassis? Cheap modulus cases look better! Apparent screws? And it’s not looking industrial with this red font or huge ugly script font.
the biggest culprit is the script font, it looks really bad.
No benchmark product in my living room, ever.
 

rdenney

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Huh? The problem of inadequate power (if that is indeed a problem, which I rather doubt) is a multichannel problem? I've heard inadequate power with multichannel systems far more often than with two channel systems.

I can listen to stereo and the sound comes to me from the front just like in real life. I enjoy it, and the music comes to me at the appropriate emotional level. If someone has buyer's remorse, it's not because it's stereo, it's because they believed that some subtlety (or fantasy) will change their emotional relationship with what they are listening to. That can happen with multichannel systems just as easily as with stereo systems.

Edit: Oh, it's the problem of not looking good. Yeah, if something doesn't look good, four times as many of them will solve it. I get it. Silly me.

Rick "the future is a shiny object" Denney
 

Inner Space

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Yes, the first time I went to asr, I looked at the charts and I saw benchmark was the top dog. I checked google and was appalled by the design.
Not matching heat sink color/faceplate and chassis? Cheap modulus cases look better! Apparent screws? And it’s not looking industrial with this red font or huge ugly script font.
the biggest culprit is the script font, it looks really bad.
No benchmark product in my living room, ever.

Sad to say, that's about the dumbest comment I have seen on this site.
 

blueone

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Halcro. Go look them up. Check out a few Stereophile reviews. They've been doing better amplifiers than Benchmark for decades. Seriously, the Benchmark is a toy alongside their gear. And, their latest models are even better.

From Bruce Candy- Minelab. His fun offshoot back in the day to keep himself amused.

John, was your account hacked? Only kidding, but the new Eclipse stereo version is $US40,000. Correct? And you're comparing it to a $US3,000 amplifier? I certainly hope the Halcro is a lot better. And the Halcro is only 350w/ch/4ohms, which for that price is not a lot of power, and less than 3db more output than the Benchmark. I can afford the Halcro, but I think I'll pass.
 
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stan21

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The lack of consistency is due to each product releasing seemingly far apart from each design. But when I say lack of consistency, I don't mean in totality, I mean simply in virtue of looking at Eastern products that produce constantly new versions, so they have the luxury of thinking about each part of a stack.

I also don't think the power amp is mean't to be stacked with anything due to the heat a power amp produces. As far as the DAC and the HP4A, It's somewhat close, but I see your point (things like feat size and height really have no valid excuse in my book). Since this is a New York outfit (these devices, if finished with Matrix Audio levels of enclosure design, would be in the 5-figure range given the performance) you should expect some corner cutting in terms of the enclosure design and cohesion.

But I think Benchmark isn't concerned with this. They want to offer a device with Benchmark levels of performance, and no corner cutting on things like safety and functionality. I don't think they really care all the much about a product looking like it hails from an Italian design studio or something like that. If they did, they would make updates more often (the ABH2 is I think now over half a decade old). Side note, pretty interesting to see no one is even close on the SINAD charts in terms of power amps, even after all this time. There's a clear noticeable bump over ever other power amp measured. Why the industry is so nonchalant about Benchmark reigning like a King is beyond me (then again with the amount of shovelware that ends up doing fine on the market, it's not really much of a surprise).

EDIT: Forgot to include image of what I mean't when I mentioned Matrix Audio. Check out the milling work done on their Sabre DAC. This would be at an insane cost if you were going to get them CNC'd here in New York.

View attachment 142930
It’s true that Benchmark don’t refresh their products often and there is some validity to the statement that they have introduced most of these products at different times, hence the different designs and lack of consistency. The DAC2 was released in 2012 and the design carries to today in the DAC3, which was released in 2017. The AHB2 came out in 2014. However, the DAC3B and the HPA4 were both released in 2018 as complimentary to each other products and that’s where they had the opportunity to create a proper combo to at least match the overall dimensions of the AHB2. The fact that they don’t do frequent releases in my mind makes it even more important to get the matching exteriors right.

From my perspective, the brushed aluminum faceplates are beautiful(especially in black) and the overall clean design of the LA4 is perfectly fine. I wasn’t alluding to any fancy Italian designer type enclosures, which would bring the price points to exorbitant levels. I was simply referring to paying attention to basic details and not disregarding glaringly obvious mismatches such as non-matching feet, enclosure dimensions, heatsinks, labels, etc.

These are totally cosmetic issues that from a cost benefit perspective would add minimal cost to the overall price of the product but would add substantial visual improvement and synergy. If the rackmount faceplate with the heatsinks adds $200 to the price of the LA4, the heatsinks alone are probably $100. I would gladly pay it to have them. Adding a power button label and a model label on the faceplate for consistency is probably totally immaterial. The display is already there, all it needs is a software update to rearrange how the information is presented and make it more usable with large volume digits. That’s it. Small expense but It would have contributed to a perfectly finished product that they don’t have to update for many years to come. Just bring all future products in line with that design.

The DAC3 B should have also shared the same enclosure and screen that was developed for the LA4 if it was specifically designed to be paired with the LA4. It would probably make the enclosure cost more scalable too if the same enclosure is used across multiple components. Same internals as in the other DAC3s. Just engineer and program the screen for the DAC info and we would have an absolute winner. I can’t see using the LA4 enclosure for the DAC making it substantially more expensive, but from a looks perspective it would have been a very substantial upgrade.

As for your side note on SINADs and the competition, I hadn’t even looked at the competition in 7 years as i have been perfectly happy with the sound and amazing specs. There was nothing even close in 2014 to the AHB2 or the DAC2 when i bought mine. The LA4 recently got me interested so I got back into the audio scene. I did some digging this morning and i see some interesting changes. Considering that the LA4/AHB2 are 1st generation products, they are quite remarkable in terms of engineering. I give Benchmark tremendous credit for what they have achieved. Especially at the time of their releases. The AHB2 is almost 7 years old and other companies are still catching up even though we are starting to see some formidable competition, like for example the Apollon Audio PNC1200 Stereo Amplifier which has 137db SNR, 40 amps of current, 400W per channel @8oms, stable @2ohms with 1200W costing EUR 4,500. They have them in monoblocks for EUR2,500. Regarding the LA4/HPA4, from an engineering standpoint, they created an absolutely phenomenal products at the time of their release. An SNR of 137db is quite remarkable to this day and an engineering statement in itself. Adding a display, introduces a new circuit and one would expect a noise penalty yet, the engineers improved upon the specs of the AHB2, an astonishing achievement. However, again the competition seems to be catching up to them. The Topping Pre90 pre amp has 145db SNR. Their D90SE DAC has 134db SNR and all with extremely low THD, costing a fraction. It’s only a matter of time until they release a comparable amp. Same with the SMSL DACs-131 db SNR, THX AAA-888 Headphone AMP with 133db SNR, costing few hundred dollars. Again it’s only a matter of time until they get their amps up to par with the AHB2. They also have beautiful network streamers.

So, the competition seems to be getting some products better already in terms of specs and in design in some cases, but i don’t see one company yet that has a full chain of streamer+dac+pre-amp+amp that would entice you in their eco-system completely for the aesthetics and matching or better specs than Benchmark. I think that’s their opportunity.

This brings me back to my earlier point that Benchmark really need to work on their design synergy, modernize and streamline the looks of all components and add a network streamer to entice people into its ecosystem or in a few years the competition will eat them alive, in some cases for a fraction of the cost, because the specs on many will be so good, better than hearing capability, that they become irrelevant, so looks, power and synergy become the differentiating factors. If Benchmark’s individual components are mismatched or look dated, people will not be inclined to go all in on Benchmark and will look at other companies to pick individual components for their performance and/or looks or go for complete systems once available at matching specs and better looks.
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restorer-john

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John, was your account hacked? Only kidding, but the new Eclipse stereo version is $US40,000. Correct? And you're comparing it to a $US3,000 amplifier? I certainly hope the Halcro is a lot better. And the Halcro is only 350w/ch/4ohms, which for that price is not a lot of power, and less than 3db more output than the Benchmark. I can afford the Halcro, but I think I'll pass.

The law of diminishing returns kicks in.

The little Benchmark is lovely, for sure, but mired in low output power and low gain. You need two, in BTL to get remotely serious- let's be honest. And then, your SOTA performance drops right off.

The Halcro Eclipse mono or stereo are in a whole other league. And so they should be. They cost two arms and a leg.

Remember, Amir tested the Benchmark at a measly 5W@1kHz for its SINAD number. The Halcro rates for FULL power at 1Khz and 20-20kHz. Not remotely comparable and hardly playing on the same playing field.

They are the lowest distortion, highest powered amplifers on the face of the earth. Nothing else comes remotely close.

Have a look at their specs. You can afford their gear, ring them up and ask for actual test numbers.
 

walt99

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Benchmark: Made and supported by a great team of no BS folks in the USA (New York). I hate the idea of "throw away" electronics, these guys give you a great product with 5 yr warranty and will actually repair your equipment if it has a problem. They answer emails in a few hours and pick up the phone when you call. Hang out in the forums with no BS sales tactics and lots of technical info. Equipment built for function not looks.
Doesn't get much better than that, I'm Happy to support them and am seriously enjoying their equipment!
 
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