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Dutch & Dutch 8Cs
- Thread starter Dialectic
- Start date
Since I mainly listen to CDs with the odd LP and Qobuz from time to time the D&D looks unsuitable/inconvenient. The Kii with the control thingy would perhaps be better but I am not inclined to change now, just plan to listen lots until I pop my clogs.
Rear view of the 8Cs showing the twin 8” bass drivers.
I decided right at the start not to stock CD players that was what fourteen years ago, I have no regrets.
Keith
I decided right at the start not to stock CD players that was what fourteen years ago, I have no regrets.
Keith
Don't understand the reasoning for the limited digital input on a product designed for the HiFi market? Kii at least recognized the issue with the controller adding the standard consumer inputs? They face enough resistance from the conventional separates market without locking themselves further out?
The Kiis also only have one digital/analogue input on XLR, the ‘control’ was released a year and a half/two years after the speaker itself.
We have discussed exactly what any D&D break out box would/could/might contain.
Keith
We have discussed exactly what any D&D break out box would/could/might contain.
Keith
matthijs
Member
- Joined
- May 4, 2018
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At the very least the next firmware will include a simple webserver that serves the web app directly from the speaker.
Apologies for the lack of reply from me! When the thread got kinda flooded in offtopic posts I tuned out. Fortunately Martijn has replied in the meantime. (He's the right person for these questions anyway, I'm just a code monkey)
The humble PC is incredibly powerful. It can however be a struggle to get the real-time guarantees needed to keep latency low. A dedicated DSP (typically) guarantees completely deterministic execution and avoids the need for any buffering.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #487
That's very exciting news, and thank you for the update!
No worries, I did, too! (Thanks to @Thomas savage for cleaning up the thread, when I failed to go to the trouble of numbering the offending messages for him.)
I'm listening to the 8Cs now, and they sound freaking incredible. The bass on the Reference Recordings Mephisto disc is astonishing in my room through the 8Cs and BACCH. I still believe that the 8Cs could perhaps out-"bass slam" the Salons 2s.
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And? I’d want remote volume control (to improve on the usability of the web app), input switching between digital & analogue sources, and sample rate conversion to optimise digital sent to the 8c / cater for >96kHz files. It’d also be good to be able to remotely turn on / off low latency mode so that one can switch between music and a/v.
Code monkey song - enjoy
Martijn
It sounds as if there is a lot of development both on the software and hardware (external box) elements of the speakers. Have you got a sense as to what s/w features will come available when? (I'm keen to understand the plan for integration with subwoofers but also other developments). And, as one involved in s/w, I get that dates are difficult and priorities change. And is there definition of the functions that will be supported in the external control box that Keith mentioned?
Edit: One comment on the speakers is that the bass is plentiful. I'm using these in large 21' x 25' room that isn't sealed and getting good bass at normal listening levels which is improved via use of DSP / EQ. My plan was, when I get to adding subwoofers, was to high pass the 8c and utilise mono-subs for all bass <80Hz but now not utilising the 8c bass seems like a waste. The reason that I mention all this is that if one takes this view it likely impacts the design of the subwoofer integration DSP - perhaps, for example, have a setting such that the on-board subs and sub output both utilise a mono signal to simplify integration with off-board subs.
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Martijn is coming over for the North West ‘Cranage’ audio show in a couple of weeks, so if you are anywhere nearby you can ask him yourself.
I believe that he might be running a beta version of the Roon ready, software!
Keith
I believe that he might be running a beta version of the Roon ready, software!
Keith
I am pleased you are enjoying the 8Cs, we only had the ATC50’s here, the Dutch&Dutch loudspeakers completely outclassed then in every respect.
Apparently ‘Roon ready’ might be being demonstrated this very weekend at the ‘Cranage’ show in the U.K.
Keith
Apparently ‘Roon ready’ might be being demonstrated this very weekend at the ‘Cranage’ show in the U.K.
Keith
Burning Sounds
Addicted to Fun and Learning
I spent quite a bit of time in the Dutch & Dutch room at Cranage on Sunday and I'm impressed. A bit disappointed that the dealer played so much electronic/dance music which for me made it more difficult to assess the speakers. But when they did finally play some decently recorded vocals I was struck by the clarity and complete lack of smearing. The wide soundstage was very evident (I was sitting slightly to the left of centre with some folks in front to the right, but not blocking the right speaker) and instrument placement was excellent. Bass was powerful and very well controlled. They simply played music with an overall cohesiveness that didn't call attention to the speakers at all. For all their clarity, punch and detail I couldn't see these speakers bringing about any fatigue in long listening sessions. There was nothing else at the show that came close to them...all IMO, of course.
Martijn - you can send me the cheque now
Actually, I had a really enjoyable chat with Martijn who assured me that if I could sit in the sweet spot the auditory scene would be even better - I did return later to try to do this, but he had left to catch his plane and the room had even more folks than the first time - and the dealer was playing electro once again! Never mind, they were the highlight of the show for me.
Martijn - you can send me the cheque now
Actually, I had a really enjoyable chat with Martijn who assured me that if I could sit in the sweet spot the auditory scene would be even better - I did return later to try to do this, but he had left to catch his plane and the room had even more folks than the first time - and the dealer was playing electro once again! Never mind, they were the highlight of the show for me.
I am pleased you enjoyed the 8Cs, what was the turnout like?
Keith
Keith
Why do they do that?!!! Any crappy speaker can make electronic pulse sounds - even those in cars driven by 17-year olds. Few speakers can produce a clear window on an acoustic space. They should be showing that off to maximum advantage.
I spent quite a bit of time in the Dutch & Dutch room at Cranage on Sunday and I'm impressed. A bit disappointed that the dealer played so much electronic/dance music which for me made it more difficult to assess the speakers. But when they did finally play some decently recorded vocals I was struck by the clarity and complete lack of smearing. The wide soundstage was very evident (I was sitting slightly to the left of centre with some folks in front to the right, but not blocking the right speaker) and instrument placement was excellent. Bass was powerful and very well controlled. They simply played music with an overall cohesiveness that didn't call attention to the speakers at all. For all their clarity, punch and detail I couldn't see these speakers bringing about any fatigue in long listening sessions. There was nothing else at the show that came close to them...all IMO, of course.
Martijn - you can send me the cheque now
Actually, I had a really enjoyable chat with Martijn who assured me that if I could sit in the sweet spot the auditory scene would be even better - I did return later to try to do this, but he had left to catch his plane and the room had even more folks than the first time - and the dealer was playing electro once again! Never mind, they were the highlight of the show for me.
Yesterday in a hifi show when I audited the 8C, I was standing on the right side of the right speaker - completely outside of the sweet spot, not even in between two speakers, and yet I was impressed by the sound and image created by the 8C. These speakers does very well off-axis, it is amazing and I couldn't imagine what it would sound like if I am sitting in the sweet spot.
I might have another chance to listen to this pair in August, hopefully I can get closer to the sweet spot next time. The dealer's showroom was the most popular one in the last two hifi shows, it was full of people and I gave up trying to get a good position. Now I regret its.
By the way, I am surprised that the 8C doesn't come with a remote... I was expecting the 8C can completely replace all my gears.
All of the 8Cs parameters are set by app, even the volume can be adjusted via the app, you still need a source of course either digital or analogue!
Keith
Keith
Burning Sounds
Addicted to Fun and Learning
Difficult to tell in terms of numbers, Keith. The large car park was overflowing onto the grass areas when I arrived about noon, but lots of people outside having drinks as the weather was so nice. The large rooms (and they really are large at Cranage) didn't seem to be very busy but there seemed to be plenty of folks milling about and many of the medium sized rooms (like the one the 8Cs were in) seemed to be busy. It was about 4.30pm when I returned to the 8Cs and the room was busier than the first time I went. Many of the other exhibitors were starting to pack up by then. From comments from friends who went on Saturday it may have been busier then.
As a show I like it a lot as the rooms are better (ie larger) than at many other shows I've attended in the past and it has a welcoming feel to it. It's also reasonable travel time for those of us "up North" as most shows tend to be in the south.
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