Topping D90SE Review (Balanced DAC)

[JohnYang1997]

For reference, a reasonably good spdif source has around 130ps of jitter. Best ones 50-60ps, worse ones 500ps.

 

[JohnYang1997]

Perhaps it's not a jitter issue but simply the optical receiver is not sensitive enough?

The issue also happens with COAX. This is not isolated to optical input.

 

[JohnYang1997]

And yes there are other causes like too low signal level on coax. We found this kind of issue when we tried ct7301/5301 demo board. But it only handles 5ns of jitter so we don't feel safe using it. But then lc89091 still has issues with some devices...

 

[elvisizer]

Ok toslink odyssey is over I think. I tried to unplug the current cable and again it was really not wanting to come out. So, I took your advice @JohnYang1997 and did NOT just yank harder- I took the d90 back out of the rack and looked closer at what was going on- the port looked fine, aligned properly and I couldn’t see any parts of the cable catching on the case.
so, I gently tried some different angles to pull from, and eventually the cable came out with a normal degree of force- reinserting it is much easier now too, and it’s still clicking into place properly.
fired up the ps5, and the dropouts from the tv’s output appears to be gone as well haven’t heard one in over an hour of playtime now and they were happening every few minutes before.

 

[Marc v E]

@JohnYang1997 : https://www.stereophile.com/content/nad-masters-series-m502-digital-music-player-measurements

It says here the M50.2 has got 402 ps of jitter. May be useful.

 

[DHT 845]

Pretty big number as for "high-end" master series. In todays standards it is unacceptable.

 

[JohnYang1997]

@JohnYang1997 : https://www.stereophile.com/content/nad-masters-series-m502-digital-music-player-measurements

It says here the M50.2 has got 402 ps of jitter. May be useful.

Maybe jitter isn't the cause of the issue this time. There may be something else.

 

[Marc v E]

I found something on Bluos (Nad's streaming platform) that causes dropouts with ess sabre dacs. Audio clock trim. For example here: https://www.peachtreeaudio.com/pages/disabling-bluos-audio-clock-trim

 

[DHT 845]

Good job Marc. I knew d90se must be innocent.

 

[JohnYang1997]

I found something on Bluos (Nad's streaming platform) that causes dropouts with ess sabre dacs. Audio clock trim. For example here: https://www.peachtreeaudio.com/pages/disabling-bluos-audio-clock-trim

This is puzzling, what the heck does it do actually...

 

[Pdxwayne]

I found something on Bluos (Nad's streaming platform) that causes dropouts with ess sabre dacs. Audio clock trim. For example here: https://www.peachtreeaudio.com/pages/disabling-bluos-audio-clock-trim

I encountered similar issue too with my node2i. Turned off audio clock trim solved it for me.

 

[ShiZo]

Any idea about the fast roll off corrected minimum filter? I've never heard of that type of filter before.

 

[Palex]

Question: 90 ES will work with Marantz SA 8005 for receiving full decoding of CD-MQA?

 

[gags11]

I just received my D90SE. Bought on Amazon from Aoshida Hi-Fi. Delivered in 4 days to US.

Replacing an old Mytek Brooklyn DAC+.

A bit of background. I had bought a Matrix Audio X-Pro year and a half ago. Subjectively, I felt the Mytek was better, but when I did a blind test, I could not tell a difference. So Matrix was returned.

Now, first impressions on the D90SE. It could be in my head, but it sounds way better than Mytek, feeling cleaner low and high end, and I can play louder without any subjective feeling of “compression.” I have the D90SE in 5volt preamp mode, mode 5 filter FR linear, driving a McIntosh MC462, which powers KEF R11s from 4 Ohm output taps.

Could this be a output impedance issue? Topping specifies 100ohm output impedance. My McIntosh has a 22kohm input impedance and 4.2 volt input sensitivity. Stereophile measured 20dB gain using the 4ohm output taps, which I’m using. Mytek supposed to have 50ohm output impedance and 6volt output at 0db. On paper, this should not be an issue.

Either way, D90SE sounds better in current setup. Or maybe it’s in my head and matter of expectations. I expected Matrix to sound better, but it didn’t; I expected Topping to sound the same, but it sounds better. Thinking of doing a blind test again.

Also, recently got a Schiit Modius, which subjectively is worse the both of these. But again, this could be in my head or an issue with the ability to drive the McIntosh.

 

[DHT 845]

First, I bet Topping D90SE has better analog output section than Mytek.
Secondly, the heart of the DAC = Sabre chip is also better that Sabre chip implemented in Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ (9038Pro vs 9028) however is this aspect I think it might be inaudible because these are very similar chips.
So if you hear Topping D90Se beats Mytek on your McIntosh Power Amp that is a good news and just be happy. From my intuition Topping shoud be great match for McIntosh, that uses output transformers in IMO is a bit "dark" on highest transients, but very "musical" bacause of it.
So subjectively Topping is better for you, good.
Objectively I am not 100% sure, but I always had "mixed" feelings about various Mytek stuff and I bet Mytek has higher distortion than Topping, I am almost 90% sure of it. Just sell Mytek and for the price buy a good power cord for Mc ...

 

[Mad Bill]

@JohnYang1997 : https://www.stereophile.com/content/nad-masters-series-m502-digital-music-player-measurements

It says here the M50.2 has got 402 ps of jitter. May be useful.

Thanks again. That, plus the information from others about "audio clock trim" and the iPurifier, look to be very useful.

Question: If I disable the audio clock trim, is it likely that the M50.2 will still be putting out such a high level of jitter? Assuming that it will, can anyone tell me where I can buy the iFi SPDIF iPurifier? Neither the iPurifier nor iPurifier2 are available from, say, Amazon at my location.

A number of years ago, when I and my system were simpler, I was pretty happy with NAD stuff, but I'm getting rather fed up with them lately. As for the NAD M51 DAC, I know it's not perfect, but the D90SE didn't in every case sound better to me. In some cases I heard more sweetness and liquidity in the midrange, but I often heard more dryness and grain as well. I assume maybe it was only being more revealing of the source recording? And the bass didn't really seem less boomy than the NAD. But those were just initial impressions.

I did get my money back on the D90SE, but might purchase it again if I can get these problems resolved. Thanks to all for the help. --Mad Bill

 

[JohnYang1997]

Thanks again. That, plus the information from others about "audio clock trim" and the iPurifier, look to be very useful.

Question: If I disable the audio clock trim, is it likely that the M50.2 will still be putting out such a high level of jitter? Assuming that it will, can anyone tell me where I can buy the iFi SPDIF iPurifier? Neither the iPurifier nor iPurifier2 are available from, say, Amazon at my location.

A number of years ago, when I and my system were simpler, I was pretty happy with NAD stuff, but I'm getting rather fed up with them lately. As for the NAD M51 DAC, I know it's not perfect, but the D90SE didn't in every case sound better to me. In some cases I heard more sweetness and liquidity in the midrange, but I often heard more dryness and grain as well. I assume maybe it was only being more revealing of the source recording? And the bass didn't really seem less boomy than the NAD. But those were just initial impressions.

I did get my money back on the D90SE, but might purchase it again if I can get these problems resolved. Thanks to all for the help. --Mad Bill

The NAD was likely doing something not complying to the standard. AK4118 they used in M51 is a weird beast It seems that when it can't lock onto the source it just plays it with measurable artifacts instead of cutting off. Maybe that's why NAD thought AK4118 can accept the triming.
Actually the jitter will be eliminated in the D90se. Any processing in the source is likely doing more harm.
In terms of sound. D90se is just transparent. Anything will either be the speakers, the room, or the recordings. And by saying that I don't think upgrading the DAC is doing the most benefit to your system. Room correction, or room treatment. And perhaps fine tuning speaker placement will give more practical benefits.

 

[Mad Bill]

The NAD was likely doing something not complying to the standard. AK4118 they used in M51 is a weird beast It seems that when it can't lock onto the source it just plays it with measurable artifacts instead of cutting off. Maybe that's why NAD thought AK4118 can accept the triming.

Well, thanks! Yes, I'm aware that there are other problems with my system -- I think it's actually the Buchardts that are being a little boomy because of the way I have them set up.

Just to be clear, are you pretty confidant that just changing the audio trim setting would solve the problem -- just in case I do want to go with the D90SE again?

 

[JohnYang1997]

Well, thanks! Yes, I'm aware that there are other problems with my system -- I think it's actually the Buchardts that are being a little boomy because of the way I have them set up.

Just to be clear, are you pretty confidant that just changing the audio trim setting would solve the problem -- just in case I do want to go with the D90SE again?

I can't say I'm very confident since it is still not tested yet. But according to the phenomenon and the said ESS based DACs it does sound like the similar issue with ESS DAC's own DIR being used. So to me it sounds like it's the problem. But I can't say I'm sure.
A safe recommendation, if you still want a dac, would be D70s which uses AK4118. So it's going to work.

 

[DHT 845]

I can also highly recomment d70s I am not saying that it is better that d90se, but it is utterly musical without distortions!!!!
I would definately sell m51. It has crappy power supply and it is heard! High intermodulation distortions. Greyness, lack of precision and poor depth.