Sennheiser HD 598 SE* Review (headphone)

[raistlin65]

I don't really agree that properly made pads massively change the frequency response.

I think what you're probably disagreeing on is the definition of the term "massive." As it is a subjective term that is relative to the individual perception.

However, I would disagree that the changes cannot be "significant," which has been Amir's claim.

For example, when increasing bass with pads, one is doing so without getting closer to the distortion limits of the driver as similar EQ boost would do. Which could be advantageous for those who listen loud or like a lot of bass. That can also be helpful when desiring more bass when using more difficult to drive headphones with mobile devices that don't have a lot of amp headroom.

Some pads have been shown to decrease peaks and/or reduce dips to smooth the response. Which always seems an advantage to me over having to use EQ to do it.

And while we have not been addressing it since the discussion has been centered on frequency response, pad changes can increase isolation.

Finally, whenever those characteristics are coupled with a more comfortable pad change, it's a big win.

 

[Robin L]

I've got the Sennheiser HD 579 and 599 headphones, along with the Drop 6XX and AKG K371 'phones. My understanding is that the 599 and 598 are very close in SQ, and I can say the HD 579 is close in character to the 599. Both have a fat lump in the FR in the "boom" range, centered around 170 hz. Solderdude measured both the 599 and the 650, I have the 650 in the form of the Drop 6XX. Here's his measurements:

599:

Here's the 650:

Here, Solderdude overlaps the two FRs, red is the 599, green is the 650:

I can eq the Drop 6XX to my satisfaction. I can't seem to iron out the bulge from the 599 and 579 headphones, have stopped using them.

On the one hand, I'm pretty sure that a different set of pads can change sound character. I managed to do that with the Urbanite XL pads on the AKG K167 headphones, moved the drivers away from my ears a few mm resulting in slightly less treble. But I doubt that pads could create a resonant peak around 160hz to such an extant that one would not be able to fix the eq problems with the 579 and 599. Whatever else, I would recommend not getting the Sennheiser headphones in the 5XX series, save the 560, which I haven't heard yet. That boom is also in my Sennheiser Urbanite XL headphones, seems like "fat" is the preferred house sound at Sennheiser. The HD 650/Drop 6XX has a bulge centered on the same frequencies, but not to the same degree. My APO EQ has -2db gain centered at 170 hz, with a "Q" of 1.2.

 

[Svperstar]

Ah the 595 was my first "real" headphone, and I am wearing the predecessor 590 rights now. Over 20 years old, replacement pads being delivered today

 

[Nathan Raymond]

I think what you're probably disagreeing on is the definition of the term "massive." As it is a subjective term that is relative to the individual perception.

However, I would disagree that the changes cannot be "significant," which has been Amir's claim.

For example, when increasing bass with pads, one is doing so without getting closer to the distortion limits of the driver as similar EQ boost would do. Which could be advantageous for those who listen loud or like a lot of bass. That can also be helpful when desiring more bass when using more difficult to drive headphones with mobile devices that don't have a lot of amp headroom.

Some pads have been shown to decrease peaks and/or reduce dips to smooth the response. Which always seems an advantage to me over having to use EQ to do it.

And while we have not been addressing it since the discussion has been centered on frequency response, pad changes can increase isolation.

Finally, whenever those characteristics are coupled with a more comfortable pad change, it's a big win.

I keep forgetting to mention one other thing - pads often include a thin cloth spanning the opening between the pads. That cloth can be made of different materials and that cloth acts as an acoustic filter. In some cases, the cloth can also include a piece of thin foam as well, providing further filtering. The cloth typically attenuates the high frequencies, how much and what frequencies depends on the type and thickness of the material (a cheap and simple headphone tuning mod is to take toilet paper and cut it to the size of the earpads and put it between the driver and the earpad, same can be done with felt for a more extreme effect). So that should also be considered when changing pads, especially if the stock pads have a thicker cloth or foam that as part of them that would normally cover the driver. So it's not just about the pad material (velour, Alcantara, microfiber, synthetic leather, leather), pad material preparations (fenestrated or not), combinations (hybrid pads with leather or synthetic leather around the circumference and velour on the head contact surface, or fenestrated interior but solid exterior, or Alcantara half circumference back, synthetic leather front half to alter interior pad sound reflections), and foam makeup (fast rebound foam, slow rebound high density memory foam, or hybrid foam construction). All then these pad material choices also come together with clamp force and head size and dimensions that can produce different seals and fits depending on a particular person, especially if they wear glasses (which is why some headphone review sites do separate measurements for what a headphone sounds like with the arms of glasses breaking the pad seal against the head, so while synthetic leather/leather pads seal better and typically enhance bass they are also affected more by the seal being broken when you wear glasses).

 

[Streamc]

Why reference curve is not flat?

 

[spartaman64]

What are you trying to say? That EQ don't make a difference?

i think hes saying that likely the EQ is wrong since the headphones with the aftermarket pads seem to measure differently

 

[spartaman64]

Why reference curve is not flat?

its for headphones not speakers. when you put a flat speaker in a room the room is going to change the sound into a curve like the reference curve. headphones basically have to recreate the room

 

[infinitesymphony]

Why reference curve is not flat?

'Cause it's the Harman preference curve, not a reference curve. There are other curves that are flatter, like diffuse field. The Sennheiser HD600s were designed to target that curve.

 

[KiyPhi]

'Cause it's the Harman preference curve, not a reference curve. There are other curves that are flatter, like diffuse field. The Sennheiser HD600s were designed to target that curve.

Harman is a reference curve. It's the tonality of good speakers in a good room and is a better reference than diffuse field. Don't forget than Harman curve prescribes that one should adjust bass and treble levels to preference. Oratory's Optum Hifi curve is basically Harman with no bass. The basis is still the most realistic representation we have to make music sound like intended unless you want to go ham with a Smyth Realizer.

 

[Robbo99999]

Some pads on some headphones have a profound difference, some pads on some headphones have little to no difference.

Nothing debatable about that. Facts of life.

Amir measured a headphone he received. It came with unknown aftermarket pads. Owner didn't like it. Asked Amir to measure it.

Now... Amir could have just reported this to the owner or post it with the info of non standard pads. Amir mentioned this (including the unknown pads and the original ones were not included).
Of course readers can bitch about it that it isn't representative for ' stock' ones. And it isn't.

Then 8 pages of back and forth about the pads.
Pads can and in this case most likely DO make a difference.
People want measurements of a stock one (one that is no longer sold and already measured enough).
If folks want it measured stock they should send Amir the pads and ask him to also measure it with the stock pads or stop whining about it.

The measurement is of an older, obsolete, model with unknown after market pads... take the review for what it is not what some want it to be.
When you want it to be send in a stock one yourself.

That's fine, and I like your work showing the pad differences by the way, but not everyone who reads these reviews has your knowledge & perspective on the differences that pads can make, so measuring a headphone with aftermarket pads that has unknown effects (but in this case massive effects) on the frequency response only muddies the waters on what readers gain from the review in terms of how they perceive the headphone being measured. I mean really you can't be measuring a certain model of headphone and then slapping on aftermarket pads that totally change the frequency response and then proceed to call it a review of said headphone model (in this case the HD598)....you can't call this a review of the HD598....therefore really when I think about it after my first lenient sentence I'll say that there's no point in this review, it's actually the opposite of positive, it's detrimental.....even if you know pad swaps make a difference then still you can't really get much from this review because it's just changed the headphone so darned much (shouldn't have been published). I don't think you can spin it positive for this review on ASR, but I for sure like your work on your website re pad swap effects, which show pad swapping can be significant & substantial.

 

[dpuopolo]

I have ,599 and 650. Wife and son prefer 599 due to comfort. I really can't hear much difference between them. Both sound good.

Open them up and remove the sticky foam attached to the inside ear cups.

 

[dpuopolo]

I find this headphone has some more good sub-bass than others I used and it is generally good for its intent, also seen "zeos" talking crap about it.. so I'd love to see it properly analyzed by amirm (I didn't see any measurements of it anywhere else).

The recent review of the PC38X reminded me of it because it has a similar mic.

I would really appreciate it! Oh and probably we would get a good EQ suggestion for it

Open them up and remove the sticky backed foam blocking the ear cups from venting properly.

 

[solderdude]

Ah the 595 was my first "real" headphone, and I am wearing the predecessor 590 rights now. Over 20 years old, replacement pads being delivered today

The 590 is a totally different headphone and is closer to the HD580 (original) what the driver concerns.

 

[NDRQ]

This one of the worst headphone that i have ever heard, the sound is just horrible.
Never knew why so many people liked these...

 

[richard12511]

Lol, another review with replacement aftermarket pads! Just places doubt on the validity of the results in comparison to how they would have been with stock pads (as intended by the manufacturer), especially as Amir was saying that the measurements of this 598 model differed wildly from other similar 598 models. Not really good practice, a waste of a review I think, surely there are enough headphones available to measure from people that we can choose stock pads as a pre-requisite, unless the review is specifically targeting a comparison of effects of different pads.

Agreed. Stock pads should imo be a pre-requisite to getting one's headphone measured. Amir's got a big enough queue as it is.

That said, I can kinda see the appeal here due to the story(owner hates them ), and it was a fun review.

 

[richard12511]

but this is not a review of the HD598SE.

I think this is the most important point to stress here. This is not a review of the HD598SE, as the pads are a part of the headphone. It's a review of a completely unknown headphone(since the owner doesn't know what the pads are).

I see it more as a test to see whether or not the owner is justified in hating a particular headphone/pad combo.

 

[richard12511]

What make me sad and mad is reading some of the comments here complaining about how Amir does his stuff, please stop, don't tell a guy how to spend his leisure time, and most specially if giving a valuable FREE service to this community, words like "misleading" "what is the point" "don't waste your time..check instead" are rude and coming from otherwise self-entitled people, i don't mind suggestions or polite petitions ; be better human beings people

He can certainly measure whatever he wants, and I'll be thankful regardless. My whole point is simply constructive criticism. This is the best audio review site on the internet, and no other site is close, but it can always be better. I think well meaning constructive criticism can be helpful.

Given that pads can make a 5dB+ difference over many octaves, the issue (in my view) here is that this is essentially a random unknown headphone measurement that's been labeled as a HD598 review. It would be like pulling the Salon2 drivers out of its cabinet and rearranging them in a random (unknown) cabinet, and then reviewing it as a "Revel Salon2 review".

 

[raistlin65]

Don't forget than Harman curve prescribes that one should adjust bass and treble levels to preference. Oratory's Optum Hifi curve is basically Harman with no bass.

I always appreciated the promotional value of that caveat. Because then every curve corrected for uneven peaks and dips means one is using Harman Target Response, just adjusted for bass and treble. Even a flat response.

So all of the other curves should also claim the same exemption about adjusting for bass and treble, and then we can all call them the same thing. For instance, why don't we just call HTR Crinacle's curve adjusted for bass and treble. lol

 

[KeithPhantom]

The Sennheiser HD600s were designed to target that curve.

Not quite, their FR curve is worse at following DF than Harman:

 

[Paolo]

Original pads for HD598 (or HD598SE, different color) are relatively cheap ($ 24 for a pair).
Just buy a set, slap 'm on there and re-measure would be my idea.

Problem is the pads sold by Sennheiser are not the ones that originally come with the HD598, I've just received mines and the new ones are different from any other original pad I've seen from sennheiser. They're plush and the fabric outside feel like suede.

The 598 originally had velvet pads and they where really soft and comfortable. The ones I've order from geekria are of a similar velvet, but more rigid. Same for the original pads on the HD 560S, velvet outside and hard foam inside, the are the ones I'm swapping with the new "suede" pads.