Sennheiser HD 598 SE* Review (headphone)

[solderdude]

I recently tried the newer version of these, the HD 569, and I was not a huge fan of them. The bass is very boomy and pronounced and the sound stage feels very cramped. I did try the Oratory EQ and it made a huge difference, but overall I felt that they were not worth keeping. My AKG K371 sound better and that is what I am keeping for the time being.

The HD599SE is the successor and sounds very similar to the HD598SE (both are black versions)
The 569 measures and sounds very different (open vs closed)

HD569:

HD599:

 

[Transmaniacon]

The HD569 is not a newer version of these headphones. The 598/SE are open, 569 is a closed-back and has somewhat wonky tuning. See oratory1990's database for a FR graph of the 569, it's not great.

I was thinking of the HD 598cs, my apologies!

 

[solderdude]

That one too is a closed version and not the successor of the HD598.
It is actually closer to the HD569.
The HD598SR is closer to the HD598(SE)

The only interesting one in the 5** series is the HD560S (also an open headphone)
The HD580 and HD58X aren't 5** series but belong in the HD6** series.

 

[raistlin65]

Sure it was not to excuse Sennheiser, they are big enough to put the money in developing something proper. I was trying to point out it may in the end be that we reached the limit of the technology.

Maybe dynamic drivers with passive radiators or a bass driver could be a direction to address this. After all, we don't expect great sub bass from a single driver speaker.

Tyll's discussion of the 1More Triple Driver design with its use of a bass reflector, and then his follow-up on how that impacts bass quality is interesting.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/1more-triple-driver-over-ear-headphones

 

[Robbo99999]

K7XX @ 90dB SPL

K702 at 90dB SPL

According to your measurements, considering the large amount of bass at stock for the K7XX, then that's a pretty good showing, especially as it's less distortion than the K702 whilst the K702 actually has significantly less bass output at the same time.

 

[Nathan Raymond]

Maybe dynamic drivers with passive radiators or a bass driver could be a direction to address this. After all, we don't expect great sub bass from a single driver speaker.

Tyll's discussion of the 1More Triple Driver design with its use of a bass reflector, and then his follow-up on how that impacts bass quality is interesting.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/1more-triple-driver-over-ear-headphones

Those are closed back, and people were talking about open back. Closed backs with bass chambers built into the cups have had effective sub-bass in my experience, so there are some good solutions in that class.

There was mention of Fostex which has had great success with low-distortion sub-bass their semi-open (open all around the edge of the cups) biodynamic driver headphones, which might qualify as open for some.

 

[Robin L]

The most bass [without eq] I've heard from an open back, dynamic driver headphone comes from the Philips Fidelio X2HR:

Between the angled drivers and the resonant peaks in the upper treble, these are great for out of head imaging, if not exactly the last word in harmonic distortion. I find the sound initially exciting but ultimately wearing. I prefer the sound of EQ-ed Drop 6xx. But if I'm using my cheap little DAP the X2HR 'phone is just fine for Jazz, the brash emphasis in the upper partials works well with brass.

 

[Robbo99999]

The most bass [without eq] I've heard from an open back, dynamic driver headphone comes from the Philips Fidelio X2HR:

View attachment 138266

Between the angled drivers and the resonant peaks in the upper treble, these are great for out of head imaging, if not exactly the last word in harmonic distortion. I find the sound initially exciting but ultimately wearing. I prefer the sound of EQ-ed Drop 6xx. But if I'm using my cheap little DAP the X2HR 'phone is just fine for Jazz, the brash emphasis in the upper partials works well with brass.

(have a look at this post: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-hd-598-se-review-headphone.24603/post-831481 ) EDIT: unless you're talking about just ones you've listened to....because K7XX has more bass than the X2HR, and K7XX is open back dynamic.

 

[raistlin65]

Those are closed back, and people were talking about open back. Closed backs with bass chambers built into the cups have had effective sub-bass in my experience, so there are some good solutions in that class.

There was mention of Fostex which has had great success with low-distortion sub-bass their semi-open (open all around the edge of the cups) biodynamic driver headphones, which might qualify as open for some.

Yes. Those are a closed back headphone. But can open backs not use multiple driver technology?

 

[Nathan Raymond]

According to your measurements, considering the large amount of bass at stock for the K7XX, then that's a pretty good showing, especially as it's less distortion than the K702 whilst the K702 actually has significantly less bass output at the same time.

The K7XX have looked promising from the charts. I have the K702 (made in Austria version) and too bass-lite for me. I also have the K612 Pro, and more balanced sounding but not much sub-bass. I don't use the K612 these days because the fixed cable is somewhat annoying and the elastic suspension wore out on one side, as happens with that entire class of AKG headphones. The low durability of the suspension system turned me off enough (while repairable it is a tedious process) that instead I turned to the Massdrop x Sennheiser HD 58X Jubilee, which is a much easier to maintain platform. That headphone design has been around 28 years (original HD580 was introduced in 1993, original Jubilee in 1995, HD600 1997, HD650 2003). Parts are easy to come by and servicing them is straightforward.

 

[Nathan Raymond]

The K7XX have looked promising from the charts. I have the K702 (made in Austria version) and too bass-lite for me. I also have the K612 Pro, and more balanced sounding but not much sub-bass. I don't use the K612 these days because the fixed cable is somewhat annoying and the elastic suspension wore out on one side, as happens with that entire class of AKG headphones. The low durability of the suspension system turned me off enough (while repairable it is a tedious process) that instead I turned to the Massdrop x Sennheiser HD 58X Jubilee, which is a much easier to maintain platform. That headphone design has been around 28 years (original HD580 was introduced in 1993, original Jubilee in 1995, HD600 1997, HD650 2003). Parts are easy to come by and servicing them is straightforward.

I just checked, and while (as I remembered) the AKG K612 Pro doesn't reproduce much sub-bass, they are low distortion so you can boost the sub-bass no problem, so these could be a good option for someone looking for an open back headphone if they're going to EQ:

https://www.sonarworks.com/soundid-reference/blog/reviews/akg-k612-pro-studio-headphone-review/

Out of the box, these AKG’s are pristine with no distortion throughout the spectrum. It’s not that surprising though given that usually with modern headphones if there is any distortion, then it’s down low in the sub bass region, and since the K612 Pro bass response and extension is weak, the drivers don’t struggle with distortion to reproduce the low frequencies – they barely reproduce them at all! This is where calibration comes to the rescue with a massive 10dB boost in the sub bass, which also introduces some 2nd harmonic distortion, but, luckily, the numbers stay reasonably low and it leads to no audible artifacts, the sound remains clean.

 

[Robbo99999]

The K7XX have looked promising from the charts. I have the K702 (made in Austria version) and too bass-lite for me. I also have the K612 Pro, and more balanced sounding but not much sub-bass. I don't use the K612 these days because the fixed cable is somewhat annoying and the elastic suspension wore out on one side, as happens with that entire class of AKG headphones. The low durability of the suspension system turned me off enough (while repairable it is a tedious process) that instead I turned to the Massdrop x Sennheiser HD 58X Jubilee, which is a much easier to maintain platform. That headphone design has been around 28 years (original HD580 was introduced in 1993, original Jubilee in 1995, HD600 1997, HD650 2003). Parts are easy to come by and servicing them is straightforward.

Yes, K702 are bass light, but Oratory measured the K702 recently, I sent him both of my K702 to measure. He decided to EQ up the bass to Harman levels even at 20Hz, I was a bit surprised about that.....I do an EQ based on his measurements and roll of the bass from Harman Curve at around 35Hz, to me that helps to maximise the good spatial qualities of that headphone and aids in some overall clarity. So, yes, if you find K702 bass light, then you can always try Oratory's EQ. I've had my oldest K702 (both Chinese) since 2015 and I've got 1000's of hours on that headphone, the elastic has not worn out yet, still sits ok on my head anyway. Yeah, there is a DIY process to repair the elastic, solderdude linked me the process or the elastic (one or both), so I've got it bookmarked somewhere. K7XX looks amazing in terms of how easy it is to EQ to the Harman Curve and also to the bass given that it almost requires no boost to hit the Harman Curve all the way down to 20Hz.......it doesn't have angled pads though, so praps soundstage/spatial qualities are not as good as the K702.....otherwise it looks like it should be a really great headphone.

 

[yahrightthere]

My ears must be bad then, I have a pair of Sennheiser HD 598 (no EQ ) & luv'em compaired to my Sony wh1000xm3, Jaybird X3, or the Drop
Sennheiser HD6xx, course I am older than that stuff underneath a rock!

 

[Robin L]

(have a look at this post: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-hd-598-se-review-headphone.24603/post-831481 ) EDIT: unless you're talking about just ones you've listened to....because K7XX has more bass than the X2HR, and K7XX is open back dynamic.

Just ones I've listened to.

 

[Robbo99999]

My ears must be bad then, I have a pair of Sennheiser HD 598 (no EQ ) & luv'em compaired to my Sony wh1000xm3, Jaybird X3, or the Drop
Sennheiser HD6xx, course I am older than that stuff underneath a rock!

That's fine, you can disregard the review because it was done using aftermarket pads that totally changed the frequency response, so the reviewed unit in this thread doesn't resemble a factory bought unit at all in terms of unEQ'd sound.

Just ones I've listened to.

Ah, thought so, hence my EDIT.

 

[phoenixsong]

The K7XX have looked promising from the charts. I have the K702 (made in Austria version) and too bass-lite for me. I also have the K612 Pro, and more balanced sounding but not much sub-bass. I don't use the K612 these days because the fixed cable is somewhat annoying and the elastic suspension wore out on one side, as happens with that entire class of AKG headphones. The low durability of the suspension system turned me off enough (while repairable it is a tedious process) that instead I turned to the Massdrop x Sennheiser HD 58X Jubilee, which is a much easier to maintain platform. That headphone design has been around 28 years (original HD580 was introduced in 1993, original Jubilee in 1995, HD600 1997, HD650 2003). Parts are easy to come by and servicing them is straightforward.

Yeah, the suspension is terrible but I've managed to use regular rubber bands as a removable replacement (no need to cut/tie either). Sold my K7XX after I got my K712pro because although it has more bass, I felt it made it muddy sounding. Possibly high distortion? Anyway, I wouldn't go for the AKG K7-- series if bass is a priority (PS: I have the HD58X too)

 

[Robbo99999]

Yeah, the suspension is terrible but I've managed to use regular rubber bands as a removable replacement (no need to cut/tie either). Sold my K7XX after I got my K712pro because although it has more bass, I felt it made it muddy sounding. Possibly high distortion? Anyway, I wouldn't go for the AKG K7-- series if bass is a priority (PS: I have the HD58X too)

K7XX without EQ would sound muddy as hell due to the massive "bump" (frequency response) in the 100-300Hz area (and in comparison to the level of the treble). https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-hd-598-se-review-headphone.24603/post-831481
After EQ to the Harman Curve I'd expect it to sound good. I'd never recommend that headphone to be listened to without EQ.

 

[Robin L]

K7XX without EQ would sound muddy as hell due to the massive "bump" in the 100-300Hz area (and in comparison to the level of the treble). After EQ to the Harman Curve I'd expect it to sound good. I'd never recommend that headphone to be listened to without EQ.

And while the X2HRs don't go subterranean, they are good to 40 hz without eq or extra power. From around 40hz to around 3khz they conform to the Harman Curve, with no lower midrange/upper bass bulge.

 

[Robbo99999]

And while the X2HRs don't go subterranean, they are good to 40 hz without eq or extra power. From around 40hz to around 3khz they conform to the Harman Curve, with no lower midrange/upper bass bulge.

It does look that way. Oratory's measurement shows them rolling off a little earlier than Amir's though: https://www.dropbox.com/s/juhrydiiwlnxvl2/Philips Fidelio X2.pdf?dl=0
EDIT: although not much differently now that I look closer (optical illusion!)

 

[Tks]

Sure it was not to excuse Sennheiser, they are big enough to put the money in developing something proper. I was trying to point out it may in the end be that we reached the limit of the technology. Personally Over the years I had a few planars that I ended up selling because they where not sensitive enough for my use cases. The example you point is a proof they can be sensitive enough tough, although in the end it came out as a unrecommended headphone with lukewarm subjective evaluation. So headphone manufacturing is a game of compromise, I have no irrational praise for Senns, I don't currently own any, but I've come to generally accept that if I buy an open back, You somehow win in spatial quality, but it will not be a bass monster. I may be wrong in thinking that, broad generalities more often than not can be proven wrong because that's just what it is, a generality. I have my Fostex TH-X00 for deep bass, that is also dynamic. It is still to this day difficult to find something that ticks all the boxes, Sennheiser over the years released a few models that are loved so they are doing something right, but you just have to know their open backs will no do very well with subs, you only buy em if you're ok with that and the fact that they released a few sets that became classics and universally praised means that some people are OK with that.

I understand you and your perspective. As much as they annoy me, I still like the sound of their heasphones even stock (HD800 needs some EQ though). I find the bass decent enough. What they get right is bring light and decent ergonomics. My main critique against them is their corporate attitude being utter garbage due to nonchalance as if they were Nokia. Its just odd to me that a company name like theirs could be so indifferent as to get them to where they are today. All the chances all other companies would dream of to position themselves, and they are simply are content with recycling the same old variation of the same driver (heck even the non HD6-- line has basically the same THD profile).

But in reality none of this really matters beyond on-paper. HD650 sounds great to me, and more importantly, they are comfy enough. But like any fan, you would hope to see something new from a company you actually have some respect for.