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Topping D70s MQA Review (DAC)

Angsty

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Glad to hear that but would like to know how it would sound compared to a Bitfrost 2, or even a Modi MB?

I've never listened to either the Bifrost 2 or Modi MB in my system, so I can't comment on that. However, multi-bit Schiits have been shown on this site to measure quite poorly. I purchased my Modi 3 based on how much better it measured versus earlier Schiit DACs. I've been happy with it for the price; it has a home in my second system.

I finally decided to buy the D70s largely because it is an "instrument grade" DAC; you should be able to test other components with its output. With this level of performance, I could be assured that anything untoward I was hearing in my system was not due to the DAC. The D50s costs a lot less, with Bluetooth and remote control, but is not on par from a measured output perspective. It also lacks balanced output.

I don't really subscribe to the notion that DACs have a sound signature, but they can have flaws that may be audible. Even that is up for debate for "competent" DACs, such as the D50s. There really is no debate that the D70s measures superlatively well.
 
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crisppacket

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I'm looking to upgrade from a Loxjie D30 and am considering the D70s MQA.
I like the AKM sound and want the balanced out.

I'll be using primarily as a USB DAC, but also optical and coaxial for TV/bluray.

I read another thread someone had pops when changing TV channels using optical.

Does the Topping D70s have any pops or clicks between tracks or when switching inputs?
Any crackles or audio dropouts during playback?
 

NJC

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I've never listened to either the Bifrost 2 or Modi MB in my system, so I can't comment on that. However, multi-bit Schiits have been shown on this site to measure quite poorly. I purchased my Modi 3 based on how much better it measured versus earlier Schiit DACs. I've been happy with it for the price; it has a home in my second system.

I finally decided to buy the D70s largely because it is an "instrument grade" DAC; you should be able to test other components with its output. With this level of performance, I could be assured that anything untoward I was hearing in my system was not due to the DAC. The D50s costs a lot less, with Bluetooth and remote control, but is not on par from a measured output perspective. It also lacks balanced output.

I don't really subscribe to the notion that DACs have a sound signature, but they can have flaws that may be audible. Even that is up for debate for "competent" DACs, such as the D50s. There really is no debate that the D70s measures superlatively well.
I know. Measurements are one thing. How equipment sounds and what it is able to do vs something else is another. Even if someone could give an impression, it could still be different from another person's POV due to equipment, taste, preferences, etc. Still, opinions can be useful.
 

Angsty

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I know. Measurements are one thing. How equipment sounds and what it is able to do vs something else is another. Even if someone could give an impression, it could still be different from another person's POV due to equipment, taste, preferences, etc. Still, opinions can be useful.

I get it, but I try to temper opinions with relevant data. I have seen and read reviews of Schiit multibit DACs, as well as the D70s. Although I've seen glowing words for both, I hew closer to the measurements. As the old saying goes, opinions are like sphincters - everyone has one.

A DAC is really just a machine that converts digital electrical signals to analog electrical signals. That's not magic; it's science and engineering. Those things should be fully measurable, whereas likability can be highly subjective. We have been measuring audio DACs for over 40 years now, so there is a huge body of relevant study regarding which measurements matter most to human hearing.

With that being said, the subjective differences I heard between my 16 year-old Bryston DAC, the Modi and the Topping D70s when playing CDs were subtle at best and not concluded with a blind test. I don't use headphones much, so the differences might be more audible using them. I ended up deciding to pay 6.5 times more than the Modi for what subjectively might be a 5%-10% better experience.

The options to use remote volume control, MQA, Bluetooth and balanced output helped, but were not decisive. It was largely just an insurance that I don't have to worry about the age or quality of my main system DAC - again, highly subjective. Objectively, the D70s performs better but the differences are at the threshold of human hearing, even under lab conditions. I scoff when I hear reviewers say that differences between good measuring DACs "blew them away".

I would not buy a second one to displace the Modi 3 in my office system; the diminishing returns are too great for that usage. Psychology says that people are more likely to retain an object they own than acquire that same object when they do not own it, so that likely figures into why I'm keeping it, too. I'm not 100% certain that I would be able to tell the differences in a blind test, but in sighted listening in my main system, I perceived enough differences to make me happy with the purchase.

Even objectivists need to be aware of their cognitive biases!
 
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xhitespirit

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I think a DAC, like the ones we're currently discussing, isn't just a converter machine. Beyond the chpset itself, It also incoportes some preamp stage, meaning AOPs, caps, sometime PS, etc - and this is also were things can sound different between devices.
 
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Angsty

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I think a DAC, like the ones we're currently discussing, isn't just a converter machine. Beyond the chpset itself, It also incoportes some preamp stage, meaning AOPs, caps, sometime PS, etc - and this is also were things can sound different between devices.
All those sub-components' performance gets measured as part of the output performance, too. You measure the performance of the the DAC system, not individual chips and capacitors, in audio testing.
 

DHT 845

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Dac converts 0 and 1 into analog waveform but also amplifies it to some output standard specs. So it is amplifier as well. Can be done on op-amps, discrete transistors or tubes.
 

DHT 845

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Whose effect still show up 100% on a testing suite.. no magic here..
Prove to me that ALL effects and in 100%. In practice there are limited number of tests. You could make 100x more various test, or 10000x more tests. You just assume that they would show up nothing new. Induction is an unreliable way of understanding in science.
 

Veri

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Prove to me that ALL effects and in 100%. In practice there are limited number of tests. You could make 100x more various test, or 10000x more tests. You just assume that they would show up nothing new. Induction is an unreliable way of understanding in science.
Assumptions of what you observe is true, is another unreliable way; acting like you understand things while others don't...
 

buggyglint

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Would this be considered an upgrade over the DX7s? Omiting the headphone amp of course and just focusing on the dac and preamp stage and using RCA out.
 
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Angsty

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Would this be considered an upgrade over the DX7s? Omiting the headphone amp of course and just focusing on the dac and preamp stage and using RCA out.
The D70s does measure better, but again, those differences are near the threshold of hearing in non-laboratory conditions. I'd be very surprised if anyone could tell the two apart in a blind test at home. If you want MQA or Bluetooth, then it's definitely an upgrade. But you should definitely not worry about the D70s sounding significantly better than the DX7; it won't.
 
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crisppacket

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Hi ! No pop, no crack, neither via usb (PC) nor coax/opt here (TV, box).

Thanks, does it click when changing sample rates via USB like some DACs?

How about the remote, does it have the ability to change tracks when using USB, like the Arcam irDAC, for example?
 
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Angsty

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I have not used multiple rates with my D70s, the default rate is 48K and it switches to 44.1K when I use it with my CD player. No pops or clicks when that happens. I have heard no pops or clicks at all in my one week of usage. I have not connected it via USB or Toslink yet, so not sure what happens when switching between sources other than coax and Bluetooth.

The remote is a standard Topping remote for the DAC only; no real multi-function capability.

I should add that when using Bluetooth, it seems to perform audibly no better than my $130 BluDento HD. But since the D70s has Bluetooth built-in and I can use the remote to switch it, I have moved the BluDento on to other usage.
 

buggyglint

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So I'm experiencing some issues with the D70s while playing MQA from Tidal. I have it connected via USB directly to a Windows 10 machine running the Tidal desktop app (Also tried USB to a Raspberry Pi 3+ running Volumio). For some odd reason, when I play a 'master' track I either get 44.1khz or 96khz most of the time or 192khz on the rare occasion, but never 48khz or 88.2khz.... The DAC shows MQA on the OLED display but everything labelled 'master' should give me at least 48khz, 88.2khz, 92khz or 192khz.

I can't figure out what's wrong, even with my DX7s I can get 48khz or 88.2khz with the Tidal software decoding.

I have the passthrough MQA setting turned on, the newest 1.30 firmware on the D70s and the latest drivers.

Any help would be appreciated!
 
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Michiel

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So I'm experiencing some issues with the D70s while playing MQA from Tidal. I have it connected via USB directly to a Windows 10 machine running the Tidal desktop app (Also tried USB to a Raspberry Pi 3+ running Volumio). For some odd reason, when I play a 'master' track I either get 44.1khz or 96khz most of the time or 192khz on the rare occasion, but never 48khz or 88.2khz.... The DAC shows MQA on the OLED display but everything labelled 'master' should give me at least 48khz, 88.2khz, 92khz or 192khz.

I can't figure out what's wrong, even with my DX7s I can get 48khz or 88.2khz with the Tidal software decoding.

I have the passthrough MQA setting turned on, the newest 1.30 firmware on the D70s and the latest drivers.

Any help would be appreciated!

I believe i have exactly the same, most music plays at 44.1 via Tidal Hifi with mqa pass through turned on. Windows 10 pc, dac connected via usb. As i won’t be home for a week or so I can’t check exactly what’s going on, but above story sounds familiar.
 

buggyglint

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I believe i have exactly the same, most music plays at 44.1 via Tidal Hifi with mqa pass through turned on. Windows 10 pc, dac connected via usb. As i won’t be home for a week or so I can’t check exactly what’s going on, but above story sounds familiar.

Yep, that's the issue I have... Very strange, you'd think that if it would be able to play 96khz and 192khz it could surely unfold 48khz or 88.2khz. I'm also experiencing this with a RP3+ running Volumio connected via USB. So it's not a Windows machine issue.
 

xmal

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So I'm experiencing some issues with the D70s while playing MQA from Tidal. I have it connected via USB directly to a Windows 10 machine running the Tidal desktop app (Also tried USB to a Raspberry Pi 3+ running Volumio). For some odd reason, when I play a 'master' track I either get 44.1khz or 96khz most of the time or 192khz on the rare occasion, but never 48khz or 88.2khz.... The DAC shows MQA on the OLED display but everything labelled 'master' should give me at least 48khz, 88.2khz, 92khz or 192khz.

I can't figure out what's wrong, even with my DX7s I can get 48khz or 88.2khz with the Tidal software decoding.

I have the passthrough MQA setting turned on, the newest 1.30 firmware on the D70s and the latest drivers.

Any help would be appreciated!

I have the same results with my D70S too via USB.
 
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