Topping D90SE Review (Balanced DAC)

[jtwrace]

IMO not even those that designed the dacs can answer that..
I would get the one that seems better build, with better components etc, which usually its the most expensive one..

I have the D90...

 

[Resolution]

Does anyone know when these are supposed to begin shipping?

 

[elvisizer]

I'm currently using an original mytek brooklyn- I'm actually not sure if the topping will be an improvement but I thought I'd give it a try. The brooklyn has it's faults (mqa filter distortion, volume control not great) but I bypass the volume control in my setup (brooklyn->benchmark hpa4->ahb2) and keep mqa off unless I'm actually using it.
All the benchmark stuff downstream means the mytek can run at 10 volts on the balanced outputs while the d90se is 4 or 5 volts at most. i'm curious if that'll be a disadvantage for the topping or if being able to boost the topping's signal up using the HPA4's input trim will make it a non-issue.

 

[jtwrace]

I'm currently using an original mytek brooklyn- I'm actually not sure if the topping will be an improvement but I thought I'd give it a try. The brooklyn has it's faults (mqa filter distortion, volume control not great) but I bypass the volume control in my setup (brooklyn->benchmark hpa4->ahb2) and keep mqa off unless I'm actually using it.
All the benchmark stuff downstream means the mytek can run at 10 volts on the balanced outputs while the d90se is 4 or 5 volts at most. i'm curious if that'll be a disadvantage for the topping or if being able to boost the topping's signal up using the HPA4's input trim will make it a non-issue.

I owned the Mytek...no comparison to the D90 that I currently own.

 

[Celty]

Well, I don't really remember what I was doing on 25.12.1985 but probably I was sleeping. What were you doing on Christmas of 19XX(when you were 10 years old)?

Now.. you've made 300k for your company (and for you). I've been paid, right? I would hate to find out that you were abused by your company ! All this while I was asleep. Fantastic!
What does it mean? That you are smart and I am stupid => I shouldn't question your wisdom. It 's a point view, sure and I will think about it.

But if you are so smart, how did you think that you were asked "what would you buy" as in "what's your favorite color"? and not as in "what should I buy"? That was a very specific question.

Oey!

 

[slamman]

Why do you want the designer of the product to add the sugar, rather than you doing it yourself, so that it is exactly to your liking? Taking this one step further, why would you want a reviewer like Amir picking the sound he likes best for you? How do you know if you will like it? I suppose if you determined a certain reviewer had similar tastes as yours, you could follow their recommendations (e.g.: movie reviews).

As some others have said, I see no problem with wanting to "adjust" sound to your liking. I don't think anyone here is saying that is wrong. But when manufacturers and reviewers start characterizing noise as some sort of desirable feature, or someone attributes characteristics to components that defy the laws of physics, the line has been crossed.

My view is that if I am given the "real" baseline, so to say, then I can EQ as I like. But if I am told something is better because the designer or reviewer thinks its sounds better, how do I know what has been adjusted, and how am I able to account for that?

show me where i can add the "sugar" sound of 4 kt88s with 3 gold lion 12au7 pre amp tubes using a DOGE tube DAC with clarity caps , with an RCA split to my purify amp that will improve the sound of most brighter sounding speakers to be more forgiving and help planars sound more natural. this is what works for me. my old topping d10s sounded not even 50% as good as my current set up, yet it "measured" better. why cant i characterize it as a desirable feature? thats literally the goal of all components ? to be desirable? everyone has different tastes.

of course having a clear baseline is great especially for beginners. i already had that with my first set up , liquid spark and schiit modi . and AKG headphones, again i say BORING. i would never ask amir for recommendations , we very clearly dont share taste, but the data is great for everyone. i value these measurements as much as anyone else, people want to put me in a box to say i dont follow science or that im derailing the topic, im just stating my experience, so again i want sugar on my pancakes and EQ is like diet sugar with a bad aftertaste in comparison. i do not invalidate your desire for as neutral as possible sound, however many people invalidate my desire for a sweeter sound. i wont post about this again because ive been told its off topic, however i think its very on topic in relation to a DAC built purely for numbers. you see so many comments here saying "wait why do we need this? is this audible? why not bring other products to market? you already made 10 beyond human hearing DACS, why another?" the only answer ive seen is "because we can and AKG burned down" even though they already have a balanced dac that measures well beyond hearing. so i say fair enough but if the new marketing strategy is "our DACs from 99$-900$ are all audibly transparent and make no difference other than using xlr" , than they had better hope this website stays going because it seems they have marketed themselves out of business?? we see smsl going class A and in order for topping to compete i bet they will start doing "not for measurement" gear as well. its what many people want and i doubt there is much market for another neutral dac, with no streaming features in a silver box with 2 more sinad.

 

[amirm]

show me where i can add the "sugar" sound of 4 kt88s with 3 gold lion 12au7 pre amp tubes using a DOGE tube DAC with clarity caps , with an RCA split to my purify amp that will improve the sound of most brighter sounding speakers to be more forgiving and help planars sound more natural. this is what works for me. my old topping d10s sounded not even 50% as good as my current set up, yet it "measured" better. why cant i characterize it as a desirable feature? thats literally the goal of all components ? to be desirable? everyone has different tastes.

Why? Because we don't know anything you are saying is real, as in function of the system and not your imagination. Plenty of people think their car runs better after they wash it. Doesn't mean engineers have to go to the drawing board and figure out why said car runs "better."

Show us measurements of the system and then we can tell if it is your imagination talking, or something real.

 

[Category 5]

The sugar you're talking about is harmonic distortion and phase distortion. It's entirely different from EQ, and one is not a substitute for the other. Certainly many people do like the warmth of tubes and transformers, and all of the very measurable non-linearities that come with. I enjoy it myself. I think a DAC is the last place you want to find It though. You should start with a pure signal, and sugar it up further down the chain. Your preamp, amp and speakers are where you should be getting that. If you want it at the source, try vinyl. For me, I want the purest reproduction of the source possible.

 

[GeekyBastard]

my old topping d10s sounded not even 50% as good as my current set up, yet it "measured" better... so again i want sugar on my pancakes and EQ is like diet sugar with a bad aftertaste in comparison...

I already can't tell if you were joking, trolling, or being serious...

 

[amirm]

everyone has different tastes.

Why is this myth keep getting repeated? Where do you get this impression? What percentage of people in the world hate ice cream? So no, we are not different. Vast majority of us want the same thing. Test after test shows this in research. A few are different but majority have the same preference where all other spurious factors are removed (knowledge of products, systems, etc.). When only sound is being evaluated, we want good fidelity, not some screwed up response. Don't fall for audiophile myths backed by zero evidence and appeal to incorrect lay intuition.

 

[foxxx0]

Personally I think audio devices (no matter if DAC, AMP, Speaker, Headphones, ...) should reproduce the original signal as transparent as possible, ideally with no distortion, noise and frequency-dependency.
When someone has a particular taste for something, they should go after that using EQ or other "effects", without wanting the electronic reproduction devices to produce some sort of change to it.
For speakers and headphones there might be room for "signature" sounds, as long as distortion is kept low and they can be effectively adjusted via EQ.

Anyway, in general I would prefer to keep discussion in these review-threads focused on the product and its review.

The D90SE looks incredible and after having wider confirmation about that SMSL M500 issue now ... my fingers are itching but the price is just a bit too high for me, but it looks justified for the performance it delivers.

 

[ShiZo]

The sugar you're talking about is harmonic distortion and phase distortion. It's entirely different from EQ, and one is not a substitute for the other. Certainly many people do like the warmth of tubes and transformers, and all of the very measurable non-linearities that come with. I enjoy it myself. I think a DAC is the last place you want to find It though. You should start with a pure signal, and sugar it up further down the chain. Your preamp, amp and speakers are where you should be getting that. If you want it at the source, try vinyl. For me, I want the purest reproduction of the source possible.

I definitely agree. If I were to want to flavor the sound I'd be getting this dac like I already am and I can just choose rca or xlr,XLR can go to my SS amp (hpa4), and RCA go to a tube amp. I can change between them as desired.

So if I desired that sound, I would definitely not flavor the dac just like you said.

The couple pieces of equipment that I had that didn't measure well sounded like absolute shit though and were very fatiguing. Only devices with neutral FR I can stand, way more than distortion. Anyway, I'm thankful I actually went looking for the measurements, I have a much nicer sounding system because of it.

 

[Peternz]

I flavor my sound the same way I flavor my food. I do it my way.

 

[mocenigo]

Maybe it's the power amplifier that needs multiple inputs not the dac having another set of inputs and selection circuit.

That what preamps are for, like the Pre90+Ext90, have you heard of those? ;-) Or just a passive pre, maybe just a switch box.

Or (here’s an idea!) a power amp with support for something like the Ext90. I would not add inputs to a power amp except for the choice between RCA and XLR.

 

[mocenigo]

I owned the Mytek...no comparison to the D90 that I currently own.

Such as? Just curious.

 

[laidick]

Got one for father's day gift.
And it has the CE logo right.

 

[ea666]

Got one for father's day gift.
And it has the CE logo right.

View attachment 136716View attachment 136717

Result,

I knew my kids wouldn’t get me anything so I bought one my self on Father’s day

 

[ea666]

FYI CE marking changes for UK destined products.


UKCA Marking will replace CE Marking for any applicable products that are or will be placed in the GB market.

• Mandatory for NEW applicable products placed on the GB market from 1st January 2021.
• Mandatory for ALL applicable products placed on the GB market from 1st January 2022.
• Existing CE Marking will be recognised in the GB until 1st January 2022.

Note: Conformity tasks must be carried out by a UK Approved Body.—

 

[laidick]

Can anyone hear the difference between using different filter?

Filter 1 / 6 are the most correct, but 7 is the least distortion.

What should be using if I can't hear any difference ?

 

[Peternz]

Can anyone hear the difference between using different filter?

Filter 1 / 6 are the most correct, but 7 is the least distortion.

What should be using if I can't hear any difference ?

What does it matter if you can't hear any difference?