Apple lossless official announcement

[DimitryZ]

So I do not like some of the techniques used in the past either to create 3D sound for headphone listening. In fact I believe that Apple is using some DSP processing on top of ATMOS in order to get their 3D effect (spatial sound as they call it) for headphones.

Regardless of that whole schtick I am personally excited about proper ATMOS sound in my theater with an Apple TV4K putting out proper ATMOS to my receiver for music and IMHO you should be too if you have a listening room.

Sure, in home theater setting it may be worth the considerable expense to upgrade beyond the standard 7.1.

But for music, it seems irrelevant. I don't want to be sitting inside the orchestra.

 

[DimitryZ]

The point of Atmos is that is not supposed to be a fancy surround up mix, but a new mix made specially in 3D space. This can then be played in a variety of speaker systems, including a stereo setup. So the idea is not to add a 3D effect, but to render sound in real 3D space.

Now the question is if they actually did use a completely fresh mix to make the Atmos master. Who knows.. Next question: is is actually a good one?

And sure, you may dislike it. Hell, I haven’t heated anything yet that I was really impressed with (on headphones). But upfront dismissing it as yet another funny 3D effect is probably not totally fair.

Maybe.

I am more interested in music reproduction. My home theater system is to totally different and located in another room (basement).

 

[voodooless]

For some reason SoundSource (MacOS) isn't adjusting its bitrate automatically. I thought it did when I play a 24/96 in Audirvana or something. I'm using a MOTU M4. How does this switching work? Would it be SoundSource or the MOTU driver? Or Music?

There isn’t any automatic switching. Audirvana implements the switching in the application. For now Music doesn’t do that.

 

[txbdan]

There isn’t any automatic switching. Audirvana implements the switching in the application. For now Music doesn’t do that.

You mean that Audirvana is able to switch SoundSource, but Music can't? Music of course is switching itself based on the file its playing, but SoundSource doesn't reflect it. Does that file player need to tap into CoreAudio or something to do this?

 

[voodooless]

Maybe.

I am more interested in music reproduction. My home theater system is to totally different and located in another room (basement).

There is a point to this madness for stereo as well. Since the Atmos renderer knows the distance between speakers, it can place instruments at the same spot on every speaker system. You can’t do that with a stereo master.

 

[kejar31]

But for music, it seems irrelevant. I don't want to be sitting inside the orchestra.

But is that not the point to audio reproduction?

 

[voodooless]

You mean that Audirvana is able to switch SoundSource, but Music can't? Music of course is switching itself based on the file its playing, but SoundSource doesn't reflect it. Does that file player need to tap into CoreAudio or something to do this?

It’s not SoundSource that controls the sample rate, it’s the OS mixer. The setting in SoundSource is just a shortcut. If your OS is set to 44.1 kHz, and you play a 96 kHz song in Music, the OS mixer will downsample to 44.1

 

[DimitryZ]

There is a point to this madness for stereo as well. Since the Atmos renderer knows the distance between speakers, it can place instruments at the same spot on every speaker system. You can’t do that with a stereo master.

How does Atmos know the distance between my speakers?

And how can it place the instruments at the same spot in a system that has 12ft distance and 24ft?

My understanding of Atmos is that it adds a height dimension to surround sound. It does that by either ceiling speakers or with up-firing speaker modules that bounce sound of the ceiling. It requires a new licensed decoder in an AVR or more advanced separates system AND new speakers.

I can't see it being relevant for music reproduction. And it forces me to devote even more living room space to audio stuff. And I will need to buy a bunch more stuff, run wires to them, etc. On top of it it's lossy.

 

[DimitryZ]

But is that not the point to audio reproduction?

Are you serious? Music is written and performed for audience in a hall in front of the orchestra.

 

[kejar31]

Are you serious? Music is written and performed for audience in a hall in front of the orchestra.

I am saying that if it is a live performance I want it to sound like it, I want to hear the crowd correctly and the ambiance of the hall.. I don't want to be on the stage.

 

[vhild§]

If I want to be on the stage, I put on Grados. Otherwise AKGs. ;-)

 

[Zensō]

But is that not the point to audio reproduction?

Sitting inside the orchestra would be very cool. Of course, with a lot of modern music, there was no orchestra. When it comes to electronic music, I’m all in for whatever effect makes the music sound more interesting and engaging (others will differ, of course). I was just listening to an old track by Boards of Canada on my 2-way desktop system, and somehow they mixed some of the voices in a way that made them sound like they were coming from far outside the stereo field. Very cool and not sure what they did.

The best Spatial Audio piece I’ve experienced so far is this Esperanza Spalding short on my Airpods Max. Really fun and definitely more interesting and immersive in this format with these headphones than on a conventional headphone in stereo:

https://music.apple.com/us/music-video/radio-music-society-the-movie/1440957827

 

[DimitryZ]

I am saying that if it is a live performance I want it to sound like it, I want to hear the crowd correctly and the ambiance of the hall.. I don't want to be on the stage.

So not inside the orchestra.

But isn't what Atmos is advertised to do? To place you "inside" music?

And that is so cool, it's mind blowing?

 

[kejar31]

So not inside the orchestra.

But isn't what Atmos is advertised to do? To place you "inside" music?

And that is so cool, it's mind blowing?

I mean you are just working off the nonsense hype that Apple wants to throw around lol.. but I get it..

Some music I would want to be inside though, think Pink Floyd etc.

 

[Zensō]

I mean you are just working off the nonsense hype that Apple wants to throw around lol.. but I get it..

Some music I would want to be inside though, think Pink Floyd etc.

At least the hype around Spatial Audio is about something that can be heard by humans and not only bats, which is more than can be said about most audiophile hype.

 

[cochlea]

I mean you are just working off the nonsense hype that Apple wants to throw around lol.. but I get it..

Some music I would want to be inside though, think Pink Floyd etc.

Been to at least three Pink Floyd concerts (first one in 1972,) and the music is coming from everywhere. I can’t wait until someone does a great job of creating a Dolby Atmos mix!

edit - Especially Dark Side of the Moon! ( But that goes without saying )

 

[kejar31]

At least the hype around Spatial Audio is about something that can be heard by humans and not only bats, which is more than can be said about most audiophile hype.

That's the thing, when people fall into that trap their goal is to be in the music or music hall with the musicians. Atmos in a proper setup will make much much more significant strides towards that that end the hi-res music.

 

[JuliaCoder]

At the the top of my "Browse" section in Apple Music are "Playlists Made for Spatial Audio". The first one, "Made for Spatial Audio" begins with "Marvin Gaye: From Mono to Stereo to Spatial" to let you hear the differences.

 

[DimitryZ]

I mean you are just working off the nonsense hype that Apple wants to throw around lol.. but I get it..

Some music I would want to be inside though, think Pink Floyd etc.

With the right enhancement, sure.

 

[voodooless]

My understanding of Atmos is that it adds a height dimension to surround sound.

That is definitely not what Atmos is all about.