Is that because these receivers all seem to have issues? Perhaps digital ones would solve that issue since they would just send out separate channels and the speakers would do the decoding and amping.
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Marantz SR8015 Review (Home Theater AVR)
- Thread starter amirm
- Start date
Is that because these receivers all seem to have issues? Perhaps digital ones would solve that issue since they would just send out separate channels and the speakers would do the decoding and amping.
With Marantz in particular, I don't think it would get hot enough to fit their aesthetic of "warm sound" if they used what their users would read as "class Digital amps."
I would not consider this AVR as garbage. A SINAD of 95 may not rock the famous chart but is still enough not to be audible. An issue would be what Emotiva is showing. Lots of bugs - that is what an AVR or PrePro should be judged with.
The most alarming issue is: "the SR8015 runs hot, really hot". First, how many deg. C are "really hot"?
The SR8015 does not have a cooling fan. It's good for no noise and maintenance, but bad for the heat.
A thumb roll of reliability (MIL handbook) is that every 10 deg. C increase, reduces the MTBF by 1/2.
The open cover picture shows a lot of VLSI and components. If that say of really hot is translated to 55 deg C from the 25 deg. C of room temp.,
than we have 1/8 of the reliability.
High Temp. on the top cover or sides, imply of way more hot PCB temp. or IC's junction temp. So is the case wit resistors, that may have a derating in power, over 75 deg. C. This could be even worse if ventilation recommendation are not strictly kept.
The SR8015 does not have a cooling fan. It's good for no noise and maintenance, but bad for the heat.
A thumb roll of reliability (MIL handbook) is that every 10 deg. C increase, reduces the MTBF by 1/2.
The open cover picture shows a lot of VLSI and components. If that say of really hot is translated to 55 deg C from the 25 deg. C of room temp.,
than we have 1/8 of the reliability.
High Temp. on the top cover or sides, imply of way more hot PCB temp. or IC's junction temp. So is the case wit resistors, that may have a derating in power, over 75 deg. C. This could be even worse if ventilation recommendation are not strictly kept.
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I’ve had conversations with SU before about this the main advantage is efficiency. It would allow more amplification with less current draw. However they have told me two things: first is that they have achieved acceptable improvements in efficiency via their current tech, 2) their current amps perform very well and are bought and paid for. A switch to Class D would be very costly.
I got the impression they weren’t interested but I would assume they are heading in this direction.
Are you certain it does not have any fans? At least on the Denon side, they are there, but just don't come on in just the the most extreme circumstances.
Efficiency: Less power draw. You can have low current and sky high voltage and with a non-class D amp have half of the power go to heat. Curious if their amps are as power efficient as class D or if there is some reason for not caring about power or voltage, and only current.
It's "garbage" if you turn off the video, close your eyes and just listen like you would to an audiophile stereo system but home theater is all about immersive story telling. So 2 channels is garbage for movies since it is literally missing side-surround channel information! It's like me telling you to listen to your stereo music with one speaker. You can't compare the objectives of multi-channel home cinema and 2-channel stereo.
Can't disagree with SU's business model. They're still in business doing exactly what they're doing because of these very well thought out business decisions that have marketing focus. I think of it this way: as a product manager, if it costs me the same to switch my 11-channel amp to Class D or add 2 more channels and make it 13-channels (but drop in power) I would go 13-channel all day long because my 13 crappy channels will beat anybody's 11-channel class D AVR on the sales floor if both units cost the same with similar features. Product managers have to add features that can be easily converted into marketing hyperbole that people can understand and get excited about.
It's like 8K is better than 4K - easy to understand so TVs go in this direction instead of wider color gamut - "hey I'm now 90% BT.2020 but that other TV is only 85% coverage." I can only imagine the confusion and frustration in the marketing department.
[QUOTE = "macauley86, příspěvek: 808900, člen: 10140"] Proč používat v AVR zesílení třídy D? Jeden by si myslel, že třída D bude hlavním kandidátem v této třídě produktů. [/ CITÁT]
Why connect a multichannel power oscillator at home?
The AVR/AVP market needs badly to have more competition to innovate....
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Propheticus
Senior Member
It actually has 4. Just like Amir said, 2 on each side under the heatsinks.
See for yourself in post #26
Thanks for confirming. It wouldn't make any sense not to have them... I can't recall but somewhere in the various Denon threads I remember seeing the temperature thresholds to get them to come on and it seemed very high.
I have an 8015, and the truth is, I don't notice that it gets too hot. Less than my previous Denon Series 4, which also didn't get too hot with its 7 channels in use.
Now, just in case, I added external fans, which work at a minimum and according to the same device do not exceed 35 ° C.
I added an external stage for the front trio, but before that, and with all 11 channels running with a usual volume around 70/98, I never felt too hot.
I doubted a lot whether or not I should buy the fans, they did not seem very necessary in my case.
Finally guided by the recommendations, I decided to control the temperature and protect the electronics to extend its useful life as much as possible, especially with a view to summer, it is too hot here ...
Now, just in case, I added external fans, which work at a minimum and according to the same device do not exceed 35 ° C.
I added an external stage for the front trio, but before that, and with all 11 channels running with a usual volume around 70/98, I never felt too hot.
I doubted a lot whether or not I should buy the fans, they did not seem very necessary in my case.
Finally guided by the recommendations, I decided to control the temperature and protect the electronics to extend its useful life as much as possible, especially with a view to summer, it is too hot here ...
OP
- Thread Starter
- #77
I don't have measurements for you. An ancient test of how hot something is, is whether you can touch it and it is not too hot to keep it there. The Marantz case gets hot enough to not want to hold your hand there on the left side. By definition then the heatsink is hotter, the transistor case hotter still, and its junction even hotter more!
Fortunately the digital subsystem is in the back and runs much cooler. Now if you put the whole thing in a closed cabinet, then yes, it can start to cook the rest of it.
My wish is that they would put a mode in where it would run the fans at very low speed at a lower threshold than what they have now. This can be a menu option for people who operate it in less than ideal environment.
Sound United business plan is likely dictated by these folks:
Charlesbank | building middle-market industry leaders
See the Consumer Group and the five guys pictured at the bottom of the list of companies in the group.
Normally cash flow is a major goal of a private equity firm. Certainly we've seen numerous price increases for Denon/Marantz gear over the past few years.
Sound United competes with Del Taco, and almost 100 other companies for funds. Making numbers is likely a high priority.
The trouble is that when you have so many channels to amplify, so many cables, so many speakers and so much processing it becomes very expensive and very space consuming to even approach the sound quality of a relatively cheap 2 channel system. As Amir seems to be saying any time he reviews gear like this, it is ok as far as HT stuff is concerned but it can not really compete with good quality 2 channel equipment.
To match what I am getting from my 2 channel system with an HT system I would need so much space and so much expensive equipment that it just does not work for me. I would rather spend my money on other things.
Whatever may be "missing", I find the sound of my 2 channel system immersive and enjoyable when I watch movies. If I really wanted sounds from the side and behind me I would go to a movie theatre. How much do I want it? I want it so much that during the past decade I have been to a movie theatre once. Thats right, one time. So, am I going to spend tens of thousands or maybe hundreds of thousands of $ on something I don't really want and consider a gimmick? No.
What has been the single worst thing that has happened to good quality audio reproduction in the home? Home theatre. A lot of people have spent a lot of money on HT gear and where has it got them? A lot of money spent, a lot of clutter and poor sound quality.
bo_knows
Addicted to Fun and Learning
Are you saying that my Denon avr-x8500h has a poor sound quality? Amir's measurements and my ears are not supporting your opinion.
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