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MQA Deep Dive - I published music on tidal to test MQA

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DimitryZ

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ALAC - maybe, FCAC - no. Because it’s an open standard, controlled by an open community protecting its (our interests). We can argue till cows come home, but honestly I am, tired, bored, and lost interest.

And it’s a funny argument: I am telling you it _has_ happened to me - Tidal says It works on Auralc’s. And Tidal says Pay us and we get you MQA... But when I tell you I am one unhappy customer - because despite all that Tidal stopped sending me MQAs, the MQA service they promised was not delivered, and I lost tons of time and nerves… all you’re telling me is to be happy with MQA [as it’s not their fault]”. Heck, no! I do not give two schiits about whose fault it is, I am just an unsatisfied Tidal and MQA customer here - as all my troubles were gone the moment I switched to Qobuz with their hi-res.

Now, hear me again. The above it’s just one single ‘personal experience’ argument. (Though those tend to be the strongest ones)…. Earlier I/we gave you another - “MQA gets in the way of equalizing”. You response was something like “But it does not bother me, Amir, with my Roon, so I, Amir, can‘s see why everyone else is unhappy?!”

To the next argument “of needing proprietary SW [for core unfold]”, your answer is “but there is Tidal and Roon, that I, Amir, consider ‘mainstream’ and happen to own, so why ain’t you all happy too!?” And “Who owns MQA files anyway, all MQA come from Tidal!” … (Well, see the the previous paragraph.)

To the “need for custom MQA HW (an MQA DAC)“ , your reply is - “Yah, those are coming. Fo free, believe me…”

…And to the most fundamental question of “At the end, what is the SQ benefit of MQA?”, there is anything but a single answer…

And so on. I am honestly not interested in rehashing the 200+ pages of arguments, but there are many more…

Bottom line: It is your right liking MQA, or be as you call it “impartial”. But it would take significantly stronger and significantly more scientific and consistent arguments than have been offered so far, for me to see MQAs benefits. And in the absence of those, you only alternative is to catch and lobotomize me….
What happened to you sucks. Is Tidal as of now still won't stream MQA content to Auralic?

You also had bad luck at picking a streaming ecosystem that picked a bad fight with Tidal.

The easiest thing is to just move to Qobuz/ Amazon/Apple.

Good luck.
 

lucretius

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Tidal says they have 60,000,000 tracks, if you assume 3 min per track that works out 342 years to download all of them.

You could do more than one at a time. In any case, it's still not practical to capture all 60M tracks.
 

DimitryZ

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Simply capture the bits, real-time. I didn't think it was a mystery.
So steal them? In order to share music from a streaming service, one has to break the law.

Purchased music, LPCM or MQA, can be legally shared for non-commercial purpose. No DRM. No user or content authentication.
 
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noobie1

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ALAC - maybe, FCAC - no.

And it’s a funny argument: I am telling you it _has_ happened to me - Tidal says It works on Auralc’s. And Tidal says Pay us and we get you MQA... But when I tell you I am one unhappy customer - because despite all that Tidal stopped sending me MQAs, the MQA service they promised was not delivered, and I lost tons of time and nerves… all you’re telling me is to be happy with MQA [as it’s not their fault]”. Heck, no! I do not give two schiits about whose fault it is, I am just an unsatisfied Tidal and MQA customer here - as all my troubles were gone the moment I switched to Qobuz with their hi-res.


…And to the most fundamental question of “At the end, what is the SQ benefit of MQA?”, there is anything but a single answer…

Did you forget to "/s"? I can't tell.

Are you saying MQA offers no perceivable sonic benefits yet you were strung out over not getting MQA streamed to your Auralic?
Also seems weird that you are perfectly happy with Qobuz but dissatisfied with Tidal because the MQA light didn’t go on. Not sure how many of us here could (in DBT) hear differences in first unfolded MQA, second unfolded MQA, lossy MQA with no unfolds, original master redbook, and hires music.
 

lucretius

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So steal them? In order to share music from a streaming service, one has to break the law.

Purchased music, LPCM or MQA, can be legally shared. No DRM.


I don't want what Tidal has. And there is no DRM with the captured tracks.
 

DimitryZ

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Did you forget to "/s"? I can't tell.

Are you saying MQA offers no perceivable sonic benefits yet you were strung out over not getting MQA streamed to your Auralic?
Also seems weird that you are perfectly happy with Qobuz but dissatisfied with Tidal because the MQA light didn’t go on. Not sure how many of us here could (in DBT) hear differences in first unfolded MQA, second unfolded MQA, lossy MQA with no unfolds, original master redbook, and hires music.
Well.

I think I could pass most of the choices you cite on well known music. Certainly, fully rendered vs Qobuz. Oh no, another DBT challenge!
 

noobie1

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People keep saying that you can't EQ MQA streams but I haven't had any issues using various PEQ/REQ methods. Are the EQ issues a thing if you have an MQA DAC (which I don't have)? I only do 1st unfolding using Audirvana or Tidal apps.
 

DimitryZ

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People keep saying that you can't EQ MQA streams but I haven't had any issues using various PEQ/REQ methods. Are the EQ issues a thing if you have an MQA DAC (which I don't have)? I only do 1st unfolding using Audirvana or Tidal apps.
Good points.

If one forgoes the rendering step (which some object to anyway), unfolded MQA is just LPCM.
 

amirm

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And it’s a funny argument: I am telling you it _has_ happened to me - Tidal says It works on Auralc’s. And Tidal says Pay us and we get you MQA... But when I tell you I am one unhappy customer - because despite all that Tidal stopped sending me MQAs, the MQA service they promised was not delivered, and I lost tons of time and nerves… all you’re telling me is to be happy with MQA [as it’s not their fault]”. Heck, no! I do not give two schiits about whose fault it is, I am just an unsatisfied Tidal and MQA customer here - as all my troubles were gone the moment I switched to Qobuz with their hi-res.
That has nothing to do with anything. You bought an embedded solution which always brings with potential for poor support. These little companies don't have the resources to keep up with the tremendous amount of software resources it takes to keep their devices functional. Nothing there has anything to do with DMCA, open-source decoder, DRM, or anything. It is just realities of buying hardware and software from small companies. You can rant about it but you should in a different thread, not here. And certainly not in this context.
 

amirm

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Now, hear me again. The above it’s just one single ‘personal experience’ argument. (Though those tend to be the strongest)…. Earlier I/we gave you another - “MQA gets in the way of equalizing”. You response was something like “But it does not bother me, Amir, with my Roon, so I, Amir, can‘s see why everyone else is unhappy?!”
Don't repeat stale anti-MQA talking points like this one and you will be fine. As I have repeatedly explained, the most common platform for consumption of MQA which has DSP is Roon and it has no problem managing both. Which also means should MQA get more popular other platforms that adopt can also have DSP+MQA. You simply have no argument here. This was an issue with MQA long time ago, they listened, and fixed it. It is so illogical to spin this as an issue and in the manner you are doing.
 

amirm

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To the next argument “of needing proprietary SW [for core unfold]”, your answer is “but there is Tidal and Roon, that I, Amir, consider ‘mainstream’ and happen to own, so why ain’t you all happy too!?” And “Who owns MQA files anyway, all MQA come from Tidal!” … (Well, see the the previous paragraph.)
You sure are on a roll here with more fallacious summaries. Hardly anyone buys copies of files in MQA. Almost every bit of MQA is consumed in streaming. And you spin this as it just works for me? No. It works that way for everyone. Sure, two people in Japan buy MQA CDs and play them in hardware capable MQA player. So what?
 

amirm

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To the “need for custom MQA HW (an MQA DAC)“ , your reply is - “Yah, those are coming. For free, believe me…”
The heck are you talking about? I never said this, nor implied in any way that such hardware gets a free license. What I said is that those of us who consume MQA today by far do so in the context of Tidal and Roon player, neither one of each charges us for it. And we can play said content on any DAC, MQA capable or not. You went and bought an odd duck and had problem with it. That was your choice, it is not what vast majority of people are doing with MQA.
 

amirm

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Bottom line: It is your right liking MQA, or be as you call it “impartial”. But it would take significantly stronger and significantly more scientific and consistent arguments than have been offered so far, for me to see MQA's benefits. And in the absence of those, you only alternative is to catch and lobotomize me….
It is my right but I neither like or dislike MQA. It is there once in a while when I search for music and it lands on an MQA title. I play it, it makes music and that is that.

What gets me to post is all the ill-informed stuff I read about it from people who don't know the topic. Stop doing that and I will go do something else. I just showed you again all the wrong things you say about this situation. If you don't like what I am doing, don't keep posting superficial talking points against MQA.

And who cares if you see or don't see benefit. It is a solution for a subset of high-res consuming people who want to use this format. The world of audio has far more serious problems that needs our attention but a few of you can't let this vendetta go. It has become personal for you causing you to lose objectivity.
 

DimitryZ

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You sure are on a roll here with more fallacious summaries. Hardly anyone buys copies of files in MQA. Almost every bit of MQA is consumed in streaming. And you spin this as it just works for me? No. It works that way for everyone. Sure, two people in Japan buy MQA CDs and play them in hardware capable MQA player. So what?
In fairness, I am a red-blooded 'Merican (I swear I don't have a gun) and I bought three of these expensive babies! They do sound very good, but so do my dozen HDCDs!
 

levimax

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People keep saying that you can't EQ MQA streams but I haven't had any issues using various PEQ/REQ methods. Are the EQ issues a thing if you have an MQA DAC (which I don't have)? I only do 1st unfolding using Audirvana or Tidal apps.
1st unfold non-MQA DAC is no problem with EQ but you can't EQ in front of a MQA DAC (unless you have Roon) because EQ changes the bitstream and it is not longer recognized as MQA by the DAC.
 

DimitryZ

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1st unfold non-MQA DAC is no problem with EQ but you can't EQ in front of a MQA DAC (unless you have Roon) because EQ changes the bitstream and it is not longer recognized as MQA by the DAC.
The rendering phase is unimportant to most who are not MQA true believers (am I one? :))
 

DimitryZ

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It is a solution for a subset of high-res consuming people who want to use this format.

It isn't really clear if it is hirez or just does a strange dance to masquerade as (lossy) hirez. So it may be no solution at all.
I would classify it as "limited hires," to 44/48 KHx by system design intent. Unlike LPCM, which is "unlimited hires." By definition, DXD is unlimited to ~176KHz.
 
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