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Audeze LCD-24 Review (Headphone)

YSC

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This in ear flat response is kinda strange target, it seems more weird when back in LCD2 era it seems audeze don’t aim at this response?
 

Francis Vaughan

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you're obviously a bit behind on the current trends, something like the Qudelix 5K can configured by the manufacturer to do any Target curve you want and store several tonal 'profiles' simulataneously for the low price of 100$.

Using something like this is exactly what I meant. That isn't an active HP. It is an amplifier with DSP. What I want is for manufactures of HPs to offer models that assume that the user will use them with the likes of the Qudelix. What I don't really like is the prospect of is integrated HPs with something similar to the Qudelix inside the HPs being the only solution.
To add, if you mean manufactures of HPs will just use a Qudelix like solution inside, that limits them to the capability of that design and chipset.

why make a better engineered product when people obviously don't care or know enough about it?

Why bother at all?
 

Harmonie

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This can goes from one headless panther to the other extreme with its head on and golfing too!
So how to evaluate a HP; with or without EQ? Is there any acceptable standard?
IMHO is that the HP has the ability to be EQ'd to a desirable way. After all it's consumer's choice.
 

srsxmi

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solderdude

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I'm curious about it's distortion performance at lower SPL, like 70db-ish, since 94dbSPL looks slightly worse than 114dbSPL

It will be dominated by noise so the plots will appear smaller. This is the main reason no one measures distortion at 70dB SPL.
Distortion will be equally negligible. A headphone isn't going to distort more at smaller excursions.
 

solderdude

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This in ear flat response is kinda strange target, it seems more weird when back in LCD2 era it seems audeze don’t aim at this response?

All similar looking Audeze's have very similar FR. This one does not seem to differ from the other ones in this aspect.

tonal-balance-all-lcd-open.png

Note: pinna and ear canal less measurements. Only 'lows' compensated below 200Hz, hence the drop-off below 200Hz. If hat correction was not present they all will measure 'flat' between 10Hz and 1kHz.
 
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abdo123

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Using something like this is exactly what I meant. That isn't an active HP. It is an amplifier with DSP. What I want is for manufactures of HPs to offer models that assume that the user will use them with the likes of the Qudelix. What I don't really like is the prospect of is integrated HPs with something similar to the Qudelix inside the HPs being the only solution.

like i said, an incomplete product will not survive in such a market, and assuming the customer is educated enough to use a product is a fatal mistake.

I personally would love someone to make a headphone design based on L/R matching and low distortion then complement it with electronic components to make it a really competitive and complete product.

I rather not chose one feature over the other when I buy passive designs. or Need someone like Amir to find the headphones with low distortion and excellent L/R matching.

This market is weird, confusing and frustrating.
 

Francis Vaughan

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This can goes from one headless panther to the other extreme with its head on and golfing too!
So how to evaluate a HP; with or without EQ? Is there any acceptable standard?

Discussed many times. HPs are a crapshoot, and there simply isn't one made that can't be improved without EQ. Most improve dramatically. So the assumption becomes that if you are serious about the sound you will EQ. If you don't EQ, you really are not serious, and would be better off with a pair of Beats. :p

Once we get there, the important score is the performance with EQ, and the performance without is mostly just for information. We are on the transition. Soon we may see only the panther for EQ.
 

Francis Vaughan

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assuming the customer is educated enough to use a product is a fatal mistake

I'm not talking about the general consumer market. We have just reviewed a $3000 plus HP. Any HP above about $500 should reasonably assume that the customer can read. Assuming a market of stupid uneducated customers is fine if you are Beats or Bose. But assuming all customers are so, is neglecting a multi-billion dollar market. You don't get rich ignoring markets like that.

It isn't as if there aren't a billion odd smart phones out there. Assuming the customer is educated enough to use one doesn't seem to have been all that fatal.
 

Harmonie

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Discussed many times. HPs are a crapshoot, and there simply isn't one made that can't be improved without EQ. Most improve dramatically. So the assumption becomes that if you are serious about the sound you will EQ. If you don't EQ, you really are not serious, and would be better off with a pair of Beats. :p

Once we get there, the important score is the performance with EQ, and the performance without is mostly just for information. We are on the transition. Soon we may see only the panther for EQ.

I know, I agree and posted about needed EQ before as well ;)
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ser-hd800s-review-headphone.18424/post-602282
 

abdo123

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I'm not talking about the general consumer market. We have just reviewed a $3000 plus HP. Any HP above about $500 should reasonably assume that the customer can read. Assuming a market of stupid uneducated customers is fine if you are Beats or Bose. But assuming all customers are so, is neglecting a multi-billion dollar market. You don't get rich ignoring markets like that.

It isn't as if there aren't a billion odd smart phones out there. Assuming the customer is educated enough to use one doesn't seem to have been all that fatal.

you should get a headphone working out of the box for 3000$.

the fact that high-end headphone manufacturers have indoctrinated people that THEY need to put the effort to get the best sound possible out of the headphones is gross.
 

Harmonie

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you should get a headphone working out of the box for 3000$.

the fact that high-end headphone manufacturers have indoctrinated people that THEY need to put the effort to get the best sound possible out of the headphones is gross.
How about one at 1700$ ?
What's the limit?
When you spend that kind of money you probably have a HP amp and the software that completes it too.
As long as you manage a desirable EQ it should be OK somehow.
 

Jimbob54

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@amirm looks like a similar story to your LCD X review back in the early days. Would it be fair to call this a refined version of the X in terms of both out of the box and post EQ qualities (and failings)? I take it you would prefer the 24 , price not considered, if you had to take an Audeze pair?
 

Francis Vaughan

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the fact that high-end headphone manufacturers have indoctrinated people that THEY need to put the effort to get the best sound possible out of the headphones is gross.
I think there is a bit of the opposite as well. Audiophiles love to fiddle. It is a hobby. The entire thing is filled with upgraditus, gear acquisition syndrome. The buyers love it.
Trying to sell them a closed box all in one solution would probably be dead in the market.
Selling a HP that needs EQ means even more fun. You can be sure there will be high end DSP modules on offer, then pure analog EQ modules at high prices and so on. Audiophiles will love it. But the winners will be a the ordinary buyers who get a superior solution as well. Just without the woo.
 

TheTalbotHound

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you can infer the distortion from the regular distortion measurements in the review.
Still curious as to what exactly the audeze presets do to FR, whether they EQ to harman or something slightly different.
 

Lero

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This is a review and detailed measurements of the Audeze LCD-24. It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $3,499.

I must say, this is a manly looking headphone:

View attachment 133845

It would fit right at home with someone wearing their leathers and driving a Harley Davidson motorcycle! :) There is an unusual mechanism to adjust the headband which puts side ways pressure on the headphone. I kind of like it. Overall comfort is very good.

This is the second heaviest headphone since I started to keep track of them at 575 grams:

View attachment 133846

It doesn't feel that heavy though. The inside cup dimensions are 70 mm, 56mm and 34 mm (height, width and depth).

Note: The measurements you are about to see are made using a standardized Gras 45C. Headphone measurements by definition are approximate and variable so don't be surprised if other measurements even if performed with the same fixtures as mine differ in end results. Protocols vary such as headband pressure and averaging (which I don't do). As you will see, I have confirmed the approximate accuracy of the measurements using Equalization and listening tests. Ultimately headphone measurements are less exact than speakers mostly in bass and above a few kilohertz so keep that in mind as you read these tests. If you think you have an exact idea of a headphone performance, you are likely wrong!

Fitting the LCD-24 to the fixture was extremely easy. With the large cups and excellent seal, the first try worked and I ran with it.

Audeze LCD-24 Measurements
As usual we start with our frequency response:

View attachment 133847

Looks like some attempt is made in having a flat response even though there is "ear gain" in my fixture which doesn't make much sense. End result is lack of bass and uninteresting, muffled sound due to shortages in the 1 to 5 kHz We will confirm this in listening tests.

As a deviation from target, this is what we have:

View attachment 133848

I design my EQ by eye and in this case, creating a curve for 1 to 10 kHz is going to be challenging. So automated filter design may work better.

The next measurement popped the eye out of my socket:
View attachment 133849

This is one comfortable driver no matter how much sound you expect it to produce! Even at incredible 114 dBSPL, it is cruising with minimal distortion. I hope companies that produce distortion factories (I am looking at you Abyss), are paying attention. Distortion barely touches our 40 dB reference line:

View attachment 133850

And that is in upper bass, dominated by second harmoni.

Group delay is messy indicating internal reflections, resonances, etc:

View attachment 133851

Impedance is typical dead flat but very low at 14 ohm:
View attachment 133852

You need an amp that has good current delivery. Fortunately efficiency is quite good:

View attachment 133853

So most portable devices should be able to drive it to reasonable levels.

Audeze LCD-24 Listening Tests and Equalization
Stock listening experience was not good. The sound was dull and sub-bass almost faint, non-existent. So EQ tool came out fast and furiouis:

View attachment 133854

Despite the crudeness of my EQ design, the transformation was massive. You now had good sub-bass and the spatial qualities bloomed like nobody's business (function of 1 to 5 kHz). Instrument separation was very nice and fun. It feels like there is a miniature orchestra playing little instruments around your head. One of my reference test tracks for spatial qualities (and general fidelity) is Jewele's Serve the Ego:


The detail, resolution, bass and localization of different sounds was just excellent. I just compared the youtube version above which plays without EQ compared to my Roon player doing so with EQ, and the difference is night and day. The youtube version is totally uninteresting and recessed. The EQ version is just a delight. If you own this headphone and have not applied EQ correction, you don't know what you are missing.

I wanted to compare my EQ to presets that ship in Roon for Audeze. Alas, there was not one for LCD-24. Hope Audeze remedies that.

Conclusions
Despite the incredible popularity of headphone measurements and talk of preference curves, it is amazing how many headphones ignore that and produce a headphone with its idea of target response. LCD-24 is one such example. Fortunately it provides a capable platform for equalization with its extreme low distortion driver. Producing an EQ curve takes some work but what I have above generates more fidelity and delight than I need. I hope Audeze moves more towards having a response that is closer to target so that out of box experience is better.

Overall, I cannot recommend Audeze LCD-24 in stock form. With equalization though, it gets my strong vote for a wonderful sounding headphone.

------------
As always, questions, comments, recommendations, etc. are welcome.

First harvest from the Garden!!! Been behind this year in my gardening chores so it was nice to have something ready to eat:
View attachment 133855

The nice head of cauliflower came out of a plant that I potted back in fall of last year! It produced some fruit which instantly got eaten by some creature. I put it in the greenhouse nearly dead looking. This spring it sprouted back to action and produced to heads! What a delight. Crunchy, flavorful and sweet. Flowers you see are from kohlrabi which is normally grown for its over the ground bulb. If you leave it in the garden though through winter, in spring you get this amazing harvest of yellow flowers that taste like broccoli. I eat them while working in the garden all spring. Below that is a smorgasbord of greens from different lettuces to beet greens and cilantro.

On the right was a new planting: wasabi radish. Was hoping that it would taste a bit like wasabi as advertised. Well, it does not. It just tastes like a normal radish, albeit in that pretty green color. These were pulled out to let the others bulb out better. They were decent eating. And oh, I am growing real wasabi for the first time!

Appreciate any donations using: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-support-audio-science-review.8150/
deos the distortion rise after you apply an EQ? would be worth a before and after EQ distortion graph?
 

SimpleTheater

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After seeing HiFi Man headphones completely change the mean value in the sensitivity chart, may I recommend using median instead?
 
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