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MQA Deep Dive - I published music on tidal to test MQA

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voodooless

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Now you have to re-encode the MQA to target 20 bits, not 24.

Let's do that then... oh wait.. for that, we'll have to pass the hat around and collect vast amounts of money, just to get a few files encoded...

Am I the only one that sees that as problematic in itself? Don't get me wrong here, I would also like to chip in with $20 for this exercise. Still find it staggering that this is really the only way to get a bunch of files MQA encoded.

But back to the 20-bit issue. I don't really think it will matter a lot if you feed the MQA decoder a 20-bit or 24-bit file. It will use the lower bits (of the 24-bit output) for the ultrasonic content, so it would chop off some of the 24 bits anyway, it should just chop off less for the 20-bit file. The main point is the file size here. It really makes the whole MQA ordeal unnecessary if they end up being so close. So this definitely is something to consider adding to the bunch of test files for testing.

Is it already clear what test files will get encoded? What premises will be tested? And how will they be tested? I think it would be good to have these things sorted upfront so that it is clear to everybody what to expect.
 

voodooless

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What about MQA if you need DSP functions? Can I apply DSP to MQA files in the same way as with PCM files?

Only Roon can do DSP op MQA with retention of the blue light on the DAC (have the DAC activate the MQA renderer). They do that by re-authenticating the core decoded and DSP'ed output. BTW, does anyone know if you can disable this re-authentication? If you have a non-MQA DAC, this is totally unnecessary. You can also just have an external DSP with the Tidal app as well (or any other MQA core decoder). It will do the core decode, and then it's for you to do with as you please. You just cannot have it rendered if you use a DSP.
 

tw99

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Has @mansr really been banned from replying to this thread ? If so, that’s extremely disappointing, given his long history of work to demystify MQA. Not sure how he gets banned and other people who just continually regurgitate what they’ve read, are tolerated.
 

Mulder

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amirm

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Has @mansr really been banned from replying to this thread ? If so, that’s extremely disappointing, given his long history of work to demystify MQA. Not sure how he gets banned and other people who just continually regurgitate what they’ve read, are tolerated.
You not sure? Really? Let me help you with his last two posts:

Bob's attack dog, then. Thanks for the confirmation.
What does that make you?

Don't see any demystifying of MQA in that. I don't care who you are. If you can't control your emotions and be objective and professional, you don't belong here. He was even warned and still post that last insult so clearly he must be OK with the sanction.

His Reply ban is for a week. If he comes back with this kind of tone, he will sent on a long term vacation from the forum.

P.S. Just looked up his post on PFM and he says this: "Amir has banned me from the MQA thread. Still think he's not in Bob's pocket? "

You want to give me a reason to not ban him permanently?
 

amirm

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So currently works - if I understood the matter properly - DSP in combination with an MQA DAC only with ROON? It is undeniably a limitation.
No, Roon MQA decode+DSP works with any DAC, MQA or not. So no limitation whatsoever.

The only other player with MQA support is Tidal's own app which doesn't have any DSP functionality so doesn't matter there.

Should other software players adopt MQA playback, they too can choose to implement it the same was as Roon and provide both functionality.
 

lucretius

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Me telling the difference? Is that the definition of "lossless" to you? But yes, I have passed double blind tests of 16 bits versus 24 bits. And psychoacoustics says the dithered 16 bit noise floor will be audible. The undithered version creates distortion which is worse.

The filtering of the spectrum is non-ideal and as I have explained, paper published shows that it can be audible.

So don't say CD version is lossless conversion of high-res file. Say that it is good enough and you would be fine. Otherwise you are far worse than anything MQA marketing plan has said. :)

So you're saying that (1) you have music with a dynamic range > 96 db and (2) you playback that music 96 db louder than the noise floor in your listening environment (i.e. stupid loud)? Do you have a reference for the "psychoacoustics says" statement (other than BS' writing)?
 
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Mulder

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No, Roon MQA decode+DSP works with any DAC, MQA or not. So no limitation whatsoever.
Yes, but what I meant was if I were to get an MQA-DAC, then I can only use DSP and at the same time benefit from MQA in combination with ROON. Or have I misunderstood it? In the ROON MQA FAQ they say the following:

"Can I use DSP with MQA content in Roon?
Yes. Roon is the only music player that seamlessly integrates DSP with MQA content, while preserving your MQA DAC’s ability to fully render the post-processed stream. "
 
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KSTR

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No, Roon MQA decode+DSP works with any DAC, MQA or not. So no limitation whatsoever.
Good, this means we have access to the digital decode output via digital loopback (sw- or hw-based), if Roon does not allow grabbing its output stream directly (which is what I would think)
 

tw99

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You want to give me a reason to not ban him permanently?

Not really, I think it's clear to most people that he's made a lot of very valid contributions to this forum, and not just on MQA.

Arguably those statements you quoted are indeed a bit strong, but in my opinion, this thread will suffer if he's not able to make a technical contribution if he's still motivated to do so.
 

amirm

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So you're saying that (1) you have music with a dynamic range > 96 db and (2) you playback that music 96 db louder than the noise floor in your listening environment (i.e. stupid loud)? Do you have a reference for the "psychoacoustics says" statement (other than BS' writing)?
All of this has been repeatedly explained including the last few pages. I have even done a video on it to correct your misconception there.
 

restorer-john

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You want to give me a reason to not ban him permanently?

Let him cool his jets. He'll be fine.

He's a great asset to this forum and let's face it, we all get get steamed up now and then and shoot off our mouths. It's just one of our male traits.

As the site and the forum matures, there's plenty of people I'd like to have a drink with, he's one, and so are you, Amir.
 

KSTR

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Can someone explain this, please ?

part of a 24/96 FLAC file from Qobuz - directly loaded in the software (to confirm with the one below that the digital recording does not change the signal)
View attachment 132818

Same 24/96 FLAC file from Qobuz play in Roon and digitally recorded from Roon output, then loaded in the software
View attachment 132819

Same track but 24/48 MQA played and decoded with Core Decoder of Roon to 24/96, digitally recorded from Roon output, then loaded in the software
View attachment 132820
What ever it is, the SW you used to load that into looks unprofessional. Fancy background but no scales, wtf? Are we seeing LSB steps here?
If so, input seems to be 16bit and MQA decode has added dither / noise shaping in the lower 8bits of 24. But it does NOT look like being upsampled and filtered to 2x... hard to tell from these substandard plots.
Please provide the files for pic 1 and 3 (or snippets, at least).
 
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