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What is your favorite house curve

Robbo99999

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Well, your "research" is wrong. As I said, movie audio tracks have boosted HF as theatres tend to absorb them and for that reason most of the AVRs have some kind of "cinema EQ" to reduce HF on the movie tracks to avoid it sound hursh and with accentuated sybilants.
Naa, I'm not wrong, I know what I'm experiencing, maybe terrestrial TV in the UK is different somehow, but in general here the TV and movies have reduced high frequency in comparison music in my experience. And you're also wrong about the target curve for most movie making, it's not high frequency rich. AVR's probably have "Cinema EQ" to reduce HF because as I said a lot of movies have been recorded with something close to an X-curve which is high frequency poor, so the "Cinema EQ" effect is just to reproduce the "Cinema Feel" of reduced HF.

Just now I did have switch to my Half Harman curve for watching a documentary as the HF was piercing my ears of my "Flat Curve", but again it's not a full on Harman curve. Looks like I'll need to switch between Half Harman Curve and Flat Curve depending on what I'm watching.

EDIT: did a bit more research on "Cinema Sound" and X-Curve, Amir did an article on it: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/validity-of-x-curve-for-cinema-sound.204/
It was concluded that X-Curve does not sound good and takes out too much of the high frequencies. Another conclusion was that theatres do not follow the X-Curve naturally from an acoustic point of view...ie the natural high frequency roll off is nowhere near that described by the X-Curve even though it is part of Dolby accreditation standards. My take on this...is that therefore movie soundtracks are often produced with reduced High Frequency emphasis because this would make it easier to EQ the content to the X-Curve in the movie theatres...because it's already been concluded that the acoustics of movie theatres do not reduce high frequency content by anything like the amount that the X-Curve describes. So I think this backs up my experience and conclusion that movie content is not recorded/produced with an emphasis on high frequency content, it's probably actually produced with a de-emphasis on said high frequency content in an effort to more accurately fit the "unnatural" X-curve.
 
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Tim Link

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Is it really that loud in there?

View attachment 58568
Lol, No! I didn't have the absolute level calibrated. I'll guess it was about 35db quieter. The amp was at minus 50db so it possibly could get that loud. Would need ear plugs.
 
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Tim Link

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Lol, No! I didn't have the absolute level calibrated. I'll guess it was about 35db quieter.
That's strange isn't it. I'm guessing we both like the Harman Curve for music? You'd think if two people liked the same curve for music then the same would follow for movies. I think movies are recorded with a lot less treble than most music, hence me liking the flat curves more for movies, that's my theory. A lot of the "SciFi sparkle" of effects is lost if you use Harman in movies, that's what I've found, also dialogue is less intelligible.
My impression is that movies played back over my stereo generally sound less bright than music recordings. A music video version of a song will sound less bright to me than the CD or streaming download typically. I guess all I need to do is analyze the spectral content of each and see if it's my imagination or not. I wonder if some of that has to do with downmixing from surround, or perhaps compression.
 

ace_xp2

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Very few films have the original studio master on them these days, most of what you'll get has a remix. The remix is intended for home listening and there appear to be very few standards on how this is done.

For more on this, search FilmMixer over on Avr forum, he's currently active in the field and speaks at length over there about how modern films are done. IIRC he did FURY for an understanding of the level of film he's involved with.
 

Hayabusa

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Overlaying the "house curves" or target responses:

View attachment 10874

Coincidence... :) Personally, I favour the Olive/Toole house curve (or really, tilt). I have tried most of those "curves" in many, many rooms, including several recording studio control rooms, with many speakers, including live sound reinforcement systems over a... gulp... 38 year time span. Starting with a 10 band analog eq all the way to state of the art DSP, as can be seen in my sig.

While there are other contributing factors, i.e. physical shape of the room, how live or dead, one can't go too wrong by starting with any one of these house curves. Especially, if one is using modern DSP, each one can be compared in real time and fined tuned to one's personal preference.

Nice overview!

I have a question, as you have tested many speakers w.r.t. house curve tuning.
In my living room I use planar 'line array' dipole electrostatic speakers.
Do you think that because of the line array/dipole directivity, requirements for a typical house curve at the listening position would change?
 

Robbo99999

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Very few films have the original studio master on them these days, most of what you'll get has a remix. The remix is intended for home listening and there appear to be very few standards on how this is done.

For more on this, search FilmMixer over on Avr forum, he's currently active in the field and speaks at length over there about how modern films are done. IIRC he did FURY for an understanding of the level of film he's involved with.
Ah, very good, thanks for the insight and the link. Sounds like there's likely to be a lot of variability considering there is no standard. I suppose we have to accept that there's gonna be a lot of variation in terms of bass/treble balance in TV & Movie content, especially for home listening perhaps...so you either choose a setting/house curve you like and stick with it for all content or change it slightly for different movies/content to balance out the differences.

I'm lucky in-as-much as I can just press a few buttons on my laptop to change my miniDSP between active profiles. It's only been a few days, but I'm spending more time using my "Half Harman Curve" than the "Flat Curve", but I think both of those will be able to cover all bases when it comes to Movie & TV.
 
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mitchco

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Nice overview!

I have a question, as you have tested many speakers w.r.t. house curve tuning.
In my living room I use planar 'line array' dipole electrostatic speakers.
Do you think that because of the line array/dipole directivity, requirements for a typical house curve at the listening position would change?

I have worked on a few Maggies and ended up with similar house curves used for cones and domes. Placement is a bit more finicky due to the narrower beamwidth, but once that is figured, the house curve is similar.
 

Tim Link

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Surely the only real answer is 'the right one' i.e. the curve that the interaction between the room and the correctly set up speaker produces - rather than it being a target.

Beyond that, I'm told a lot of audiophiles favour the 'smiley face' EQ setting.
:)
So I flatten the direct on axis response as well as I can on my DIY speakers. I end up with what looks like a house curve when I take the white noise average. It does seem like the house curve has taken care of itself and it sounds balanced to me.
 

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Kustomize

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I gave my honest attempt at EQ'ing based on the JBL/Harman curve.

I dont have a dedicated EQ, so I used my Denon AVR's EQ.
Limited to

63 Hz / 125 Hz / 250 Hz / 500 Hz / 1 kHz / 2 kHz / 4 kHz / 8 kHz / 16 kHz

–20.0 dB – +6.0 dB (Default : 0.0 dB)


Does it seem about right? Is there any recommendation on improving it?

WhatsApp Image 2020-04-22 at 8.03.39 PM.jpeg
 
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dasdoing

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Harman has very destructive bass.
flat curve sounds perfect, if there wasn't very anoying HF going on in many material.
if we take a perfect speaker in a perfectly treated room, it would be flat until x-thousands. when the HF will slope down will probably depend on the size of the room.
I think if we try to make our LP as neutral as possible in our inperfect room, we should make HFs flat meassured directly at the speaker. then, we test the corrected speaker at LP. now we see the natural HF roll of of our room, and make everything below that roll off flat. my natural roll of seams to be at 9600Hz, but I have to confirm this directly at my speaker yet
 

dasdoing

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so, I put money where my mouth is

this is what I did today.
note that i made a target curve following the natural rolloff but the abrubt rolloff at 18000ish is caused by my tweeters, so I "interpolated" the follow up of the curve.
I am very satisfied with the result. Everyting sounds very balanced without the "hurting cymbals" of a completly flat target.
1/48 smothing

aaaa.jpg


(btw, bass boost in before meassurement is caused because speakers are in the corners.)
 

John Galt

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Harman has very destructive bass.
flat curve sounds perfect, if there wasn't very anoying HF going on in many material.
if we take a perfect speaker in a perfectly treated room, it would be flat until x-thousands. when the HF will slope down will probably depend on the size of the room.
I think if we try to make our LP as neutral as possible in our inperfect room, we should make HFs flat meassured directly at the speaker. then, we test the corrected speaker at LP. now we see the natural HF roll of of our room, and make everything below that roll off flat. my natural roll of seams to be at 9600Hz, but I have to confirm this directly at my speaker yet

I‘ve been tweaking Audyssey for months and am now running MultEQ flat with an upper EQ limit of 8k. I found flat EQ slightly harsh in the upper frequencies with my room/setup, and my attempts at a Harman style house curve were just not very appealing.
 

dasdoing

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I‘ve been tweaking Audyssey for months and am now running MultEQ flat with an upper EQ limit of 8k. I found flat EQ slightly harsh in the upper frequencies with my room/setup, and my attempts at a Harman style house curve were just not very appealing.

as I said, correcting the HF rolloff doesn't sound natural. stoping the eq at 8k is one way to adress this
 

daftcombo

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I find it fascinating that the 'target curve' idea persists - and that it is probably the cause of both bad reproduction *and* bad recording. It was discussed at length in the Genelec thread but I think said discussion has had zero impact on anyone's views. If I were a 'target curve' kind of person that discussion would be a light bulb moment for me. How could I read it, understand it, and then ignore it?!

The summary is this:
  • the measured curve for any speaker and room is a consequence of the speaker's on-axis response, its dispersion characteristics, and the characteristics of the room.
  • duplicating the measured curve for another speaker/room combination makes no sense because it means an arbitrary modification of the on-axis response in order to achieve it, which will (if the direct sound is modified) sound bad even though the direct plus reflections measurement says it matches the other setup
  • a speaker should as far as possible have a flat on-axis anechoic response and uniform dispersion characteristics; this will be optimal in any room. If your speaker doesn't get near this, get another speaker.
  • minor dispersion flaws can be partially compensated for with some subtle EQ (e.g. baffle step compensation) but it's not perfect.
  • the room will do what it does; if the room is bad, change the room. You cannot just arbitrarily EQ the speaker to compensate for the room.


If I were you, I would be thinking "O. M. G. This explains everything about why I'm still trying to get a good-sounding target curve: the whole idea is bogus! Hallelujah, I can now see a way to end the pain".

But I know you won't. :)

So, would you not apply a bass boost nor try to correct room modes?
I'm very puzzled about the matter.
 
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dasdoing

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So, would you not apply a bass boost nor try to correct room modes?
I've very puzzled about the matter.

it makes no sense. for this to work you have to build a room like a top end studio control room. and the perfect flat on-axis anechoic response speaker still has to be invented.
Or do it like engeniers did before DRC: use a speaker like Yamaha NS10 which will roll off so high that it wont even excite the most anoying room modes lol
 

Sal1950

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What is your favorite house curve?

Something along these lines,
depositphotos_102879772-stock-photo-shapely-ass-of-a-young.jpg
 

Matias

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I chose my target to be similar to Toole's curve. It's a linear tilt of about 8 dB or 0.8 dB/octave from 20 to 20 kHz for each speaker individually.

Below are measurements (UMIK-1 MMM) before and after the EQ settings showing how effective it was.

View attachment 124784

View attachment 124785



It is quite similar to Genelec 8341A estimated in room response, only mine extends more in the bass region, but both share about 6 dB tilt from 100 to 20 kHz.

index.php


Here is the living room:
View attachment 125398

And here is the office:
View attachment 125400
Updated this post after using MMM and added the EQ overlays of both the main system and the office system.
 

EB1000

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If you're over 40, you want to boost frequencies above 10kHz as well. I don't see the logic in the Harman curve where they attenuate the higher end.
 
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