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Motu M2 Review (Audio Interface)

umbral

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- From what we are hearing problem units are still being circulated
- Something more sensitive with a target frequency response would probably be one of the Moondrop single dynamic driver iems
- My condenser mic does not pick up sounds from the headphones I wear (but I'm starting to suspect I have below average listening levels)
- I wouldn't say "better", but the Sennheiser HD58X and Hifiman HE4XX are pretty worthy headphones that aren't too costly
- The K371 is really easy to power, don't worry too much

What are the main problems of this model K371 that are still present ?

Hinges loose or falling apart completely ?
Missing parts, problems with ear-cups ?
Driver issue (woofer problem) on one side, or different levels of volume of sound or frequencies ? Or missing some dampening ?

If i buy them i will test them for all of these problems. Not sure if i can test if both woofers are similar in sound, except if the problem is very big. Any idea on how to test this ?

What else should i look for in AKG K371 ?
What other things did people report ?

Thank you very much !
 

Hxx

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Try the MOTU before getting an amp, it may very well be powerful enough as is.

I have the m2 with an AKG k702. The headphone out is not powerful enough. it gets decently loud but once you crank it higher, the sounds gets distorted. K702s are 60ohms
I also owned a magni 3 that i sold since i did not want to use both m2+magni together (too much crap on my desk). But the volume almost all the way up on the motu before distortion was about as much amplitude as magni 3 at like 25% volume. Motu HP out also sounds compressed to my ears. I heard the best way is to use the rear balanced outputs with an amp for the best amp/dac experience.
In any case i just got an ID4 MKII and am curious how the HP out is . my main use is multiplayer gaming and some occasional streaming but i do like to crank up the volume on some audio tracks. motu m2 by itself is decent but nowhere near powerful enough. its strengths lie elsewhere. If i end up disliking the ID4 i might just splurge on a balanced headphone amp
 

phoenixsong

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I have the m2 with an AKG k702. The headphone out is not powerful enough. it gets decently loud but once you crank it higher, the sounds gets distorted. K702s are 60ohms
I also owned a magni 3 that i sold since i did not want to use both m2+magni together (too much crap on my desk). But the volume almost all the way up on the motu before distortion was about as much amplitude as magni 3 at like 25% volume. Motu HP out also sounds compressed to my ears. I heard the best way is to use the rear balanced outputs with an amp for the best amp/dac experience.
In any case i just got an ID4 MKII and am curious how the HP out is . my main use is multiplayer gaming and some occasional streaming but i do like to crank up the volume on some audio tracks. motu m2 by itself is decent but nowhere near powerful enough. its strengths lie elsewhere. If i end up disliking the ID4 i might just splurge on a balanced headphone amp
Agree, I have the K712pro and that line of headphones are notoriously hard to drive (headphone-power-table-2.pdf (wordpress.com)). They scale really well with more power and it's hard to hit their ceiling. With regular sensitive headphones and IEMs though, the M2 is more than adequate. Compared to when fed through my Objective o2 via the RCA outs, the M2's headphone out sounds cleaner and more "focused", but with a much lower clipping point. Spatiality is presented honestly too, differs according to headphone/IEM. Could you elaborate what you mean by compressed?

Also, you may find this helpful to a certain extent if you are wondering about the ID4 MKii's headphone output, with comparisons to the M2: Audient iD4 MKII and iD14 MKII - Audio Interface Review - YouTube
 
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Hxx

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Could you elaborate what you mean by compressed?
here this guy explains this a bit (minute 3:40). I am experiencing the same when using the front headphone jack and i would agree that using the rear ones are much better but they are not amplified so they would sound worse lol without an amp but better with a (balanced) amp. Unfortunately i dont have a balanced amp (not yet anyway) i just used the magni 3 amp
(24) MOTU M2 Audio Interface Review for Gamers, Streamers and Artists! - YouTube

For multiplayer gaming sessions which is my main use, the motu is fine. Its just to bad that the K702s are so darn hard to drive they are fantastic for gaming though. But with any other easier to drive HP , the motu is probably more than enough. the sound compression though is real , i can't really explain whats going on and its probably not noticeable unless u start doing some a/b testing with another amp or something
 
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617

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here this guy explains this a bit (minute 3:40). I am experiencing the same when using the front headphone jack and i would agree that using the rear ones are much better but they are not amplified so they would sound worse lol without an amp but better with a (balanced) amp. Unfortunately i dont have a balanced amp (not yet anyway) i just used the magni 3 amp
(24) MOTU M2 Audio Interface Review for Gamers, Streamers and Artists! - YouTube

For multiplayer gaming sessions which is my main use, the motu is fine. Its just to bad that the K702s are so darn hard to drive they are fantastic for gaming though. But with any other easier to drive HP , the motu is probably more than enough. the sound compression though is real , i can't really explain whats going on and its probably not noticeable unless u start doing some a/b testing with another amp or something
Your impressions are not surprising. The m4 headphone out is definitely 'good enough' for a lot of headphones, but that compression is what tends to happen with headphone amps running out of juice. Doesn't sound bad, just starts to lack dynamics and impact.
 

phoenixsong

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here this guy explains this a bit (minute 3:40). I am experiencing the same when using the front headphone jack and i would agree that using the rear ones are much better but they are not amplified so they would sound worse lol without an amp but better with a (balanced) amp. Unfortunately i dont have a balanced amp (not yet anyway) i just used the magni 3 amp
(24) MOTU M2 Audio Interface Review for Gamers, Streamers and Artists! - YouTube

For multiplayer gaming sessions which is my main use, the motu is fine. Its just to bad that the K702s are so darn hard to drive they are fantastic for gaming though. But with any other easier to drive HP , the motu is probably more than enough. the sound compression though is real , i can't really explain whats going on and its probably not noticeable unless u start doing some a/b testing with another amp or something
Probably take a look at the Schiit Hel/Hel 2, they sound closer to what you require for driving the K702 properly. The ADC probably cannot compete but should be good enough for gaming communication. Alternatively, you can feed something like the A30pro or SH-8S via your Motu balanced monitor outs if you're looking to use a good standalone mic in your setup
 

phoenixsong

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Curious to see the iD4 MKII measured. over here it costs less than the Motu M2
 

umbral

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I have the m2 with an AKG k702. The headphone out is not powerful enough. it gets decently loud but once you crank it higher, the sounds gets distorted. K702s are 60ohms
I also owned a magni 3 that i sold since i did not want to use both m2+magni together (too much crap on my desk). But the volume almost all the way up on the motu before distortion was about as much amplitude as magni 3 at like 25% volume. Motu HP out also sounds compressed to my ears. I heard the best way is to use the rear balanced outputs with an amp for the best amp/dac experience.
In any case i just got an ID4 MKII and am curious how the HP out is . my main use is multiplayer gaming and some occasional streaming but i do like to crank up the volume on some audio tracks. motu m2 by itself is decent but nowhere near powerful enough. its strengths lie elsewhere. If i end up disliking the ID4 i might just splurge on a balanced headphone amp

K702
Sensitivity (dB SPL/V @ 1 kHz) 105
Rated impedance (Ω) 62 (or 63 in tests)

K371
Sensitivity (dB SPL/V @ 1 kHz) 114
Rated impedance (Ω) 32 (or 34 in tests)

K371 is 9 db higher so almost double (10db) the perceived sound compared to K702 with same amp.

https://geoffthegreygeek.com/calculator-amplifier-gain/
(100W vs 1000W for example (10 dB)= 2 times perceived loudness, 3.16 times sound pressure, acoustic power 10 times.

For 9 dB (100W vs 800W for example) = 1.87 times perceived loudness, 2.83 times sound pressure, acoustic power 8 times.

https://diyaudioheaven.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/headphone-power-table-2.pdf

K701 needs 0,50 mV for 75-80 dB with peaks of 90 dB
K701 needs 15,84 mV for 90-95 dB with peaks of 105 dB
K701 needs 500 mV for 105-110 dB with peaks of 120 dB

K371 needs 0,13 mV for 75-80 dB with peaks of 90 dB
K371 needs 3.98 mV for 90-95 dB with peaks of 105 dB
K371 needs 130 mV for 105-110 dB with peaks of 120 dB

The Motu M2/M4 can produce (at maximum) for :
32 ohm = 21.6 mV
150 ohm = 29,1 mv
so that means for 62 mv should be in between 21.6 mV and 29.1 mV at maximum knob.

So Motu M2 is more than enough and super with K371 not so much with K701 if you need loud volumes without distortion !
With Motu you can use low impedance because it has only a tiny 0.06 @1 kHz spec. The Audient MKII has 22.30 @ 1 kHz spec so you need higher impedance to compensate and negate this (like 150 ohm headphones) !

audio.jpg


Curious to see the iD4 MKII measured. over here it costs less than the Motu M2

However the ID4/14 with USB type A is way below even MKI in terms of mV so completely useless with higher impedance such as 150 ohm. Only usable with Type C to Type C. The M2 has deeper bass, the Audient more treble less profound bass.

audio 2.jpg
 

phoenixsong

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K702
Sensitivity (dB SPL/V @ 1 kHz) 105
Rated impedance (Ω) 62 (or 63 in tests)

K371
Sensitivity (dB SPL/V @ 1 kHz) 114
Rated impedance (Ω) 32 (or 34 in tests)

K371 is 9 db higher so almost double (10db) the perceived sound compared to K702 with same amp.

https://geoffthegreygeek.com/calculator-amplifier-gain/
(100W vs 1000W for example (10 dB)= 2 times perceived loudness, 3.16 times sound pressure, acoustic power 10 times.

For 9 dB (100W vs 800W for example) = 1.87 times perceived loudness, 2.83 times sound pressure, acoustic power 8 times.

https://diyaudioheaven.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/headphone-power-table-2.pdf

K701 needs 0,50 mV for 75-80 dB with peaks of 90 dB
K701 needs 15,84 mV for 90-95 dB with peaks of 105 dB
K701 needs 500 mV for 105-110 dB with peaks of 120 dB

K371 needs 0,13 mV for 75-80 dB with peaks of 90 dB
K371 needs 3.98 mV for 90-95 dB with peaks of 105 dB
K371 needs 130 mV for 105-110 dB with peaks of 120 dB

The Motu M2/M4 can produce (at maximum) for :
32 ohm = 21.6 mV
150 ohm = 29,1 mv
so that means for 62 mv should be in between 21.6 mV and 29.1 mV at maximum knob.

So Motu M2 is more than enough and super with K371 not so much with K701 if you need loud volumes without distortion !
With Motu you can use low impedance because it has only a tiny 0.06 @1 kHz spec. The Audient MKII has 22.30 @ 1 kHz spec so you need higher impedance to compensate and negate this (like 150 ohm headphones) !

View attachment 125199



However the ID4/14 with USB type A is way below even MKI in terms of mV so completely useless with higher impedance such as 150 ohm. Only usable with Type C to Type C. The M2 has deeper bass, the Audient more treble less profound bass.

View attachment 125202
Of course with type C, but the measurements on this site are more informative. Also, about the bass and treble of the Motu and Audient, did you do a personal comparison? Or is it from the youtube reviewers kerodean and artmidi?
 

Hxx

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K702
The M2 has deeper bass, the Audient more treble less profound bass.

View attachment 125202
Thanks. I think this pretty much nails it the ID4 feels more treble heavy the motu feels punchier at lower volumes.

So my Id4 Mk2 came in today. Headphone jack is more powerful I would say if motu is at 100% loudness, the ID4 is maybe 125% / 135% loudness somewhere in there at least using the AK702. I really it and it would be a good stop gap for these headphones before splurging on a dedicated amp and let me tell you, there is definitely abit more room left on my AK702s to justify an amp.

But i was able to distort the ID4 almost just as easy as the motu. It doesnt sound as compressed as the motu however. The bass on the motu is punchier at lower volumes and i really liked that. Its just too bad as soon as you crank up that volume, motu runs out of juice. The ID4 doesn't feel as punchier as on the motu at lower volume but it gets louder and it just brute forces its way to sounding "better" cause louder at least to me. The bumped up treble on the ID4 is a welcomed side effect for gaming for them footsteps lol so ill take it but realistically both for gaming are excellent. I was able to pinpoint footsetps just as easy on both.

As far as build quality , The ID4 feels heavier but equally well build and a matter of taste. I like the design of the motu abit more but i like the knobs of the ID4. they feel nicer cause theyre bigger i think. I dont get the whole black/gray metallic cover on the ID4 but it feels sturdy. I wish it was all black or nickel/black or something.
Software feels less intrusive on the motu and I kinda like that but i had no problem with ID software either. Love the meters on the motu , dont quite get the whole RGB going on 80s style LEDs on the ID4 but i guess they work fine.

I do love the monitor mix button on the ID4. I didnt even know what that was until i tried it. excellent for gaming. Motu has that "monitor" button which works fine its just more fun to play with those knobs on the ID4 lol

I tested the comms but i have a budget XLR mic so i didnt notice much if any difference. the monitor mix on the ID4 worked very well.
As far as gaming, havent done much of that but i fired up some BF5 BF4 and black ops cold war and no probs.

Sorry for my rambling ive only had this unit for about 2 hrs , overall i think i may be keeping the ID4 just because i dont want to get an amp. I will do some AB testing comparisons for a few more days but yea
Also just wanted to mention i wouldnt buy the ID4 just for the higher HP amp...i would look at other features and thats where i think motu shines.

My gaming setup
windows 10 pro 64
intel 8 core 10700k
Asus Strix z490i
Asus Tuf RTX 3080
32gb ddr4
 

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phoenixsong

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Thanks. I think this pretty much nails it the ID4 feels more treble heavy the motu feels punchier at lower volumes.

So my Id4 Mk2 came in today. Headphone jack is more powerful I would say if motu is at 100% loudness, the ID4 is maybe 125% / 135% loudness somewhere in there at least using the AK702. I really it and it would be a good stop gap for these headphones before splurging on a dedicated amp and let me tell you, there is definitely abit more room left on my AK702s to justify an amp.

But i was able to distort the ID4 almost just as easy as the motu. It doesnt sound as compressed as the motu however. The bass on the motu is punchier at lower volumes and i really liked that. Its just too bad as soon as you crank up that volume, motu runs out of juice. The ID4 doesn't feel as punchier as on the motu at lower volume but it gets louder and it just brute forces its way to sounding "better" cause louder at least to me. The bumped up treble on the ID4 is a welcomed side effect for gaming for them footsteps lol so ill take it but realistically both for gaming are excellent. I was able to pinpoint footsetps just as easy on both.

As far as build quality , The ID4 feels heavier but equally well build and a matter of taste. I like the design of the motu abit more but i like the knobs of the ID4. they feel nicer cause theyre bigger i think. I dont get the whole black/gray metallic cover on the ID4 but it feels sturdy. I wish it was all black or nickel/black or something.
Software feels less intrusive on the motu and I kinda like that but i had no problem with ID software either. Love the meters on the motu , dont quite get the whole RGB going on 80s style LEDs on the ID4 but i guess they work fine.

I do love the monitor mix button on the ID4. I didnt even know what that was until i tried it. excellent for gaming. Motu has that "monitor" button which works fine its just more fun to play with those knobs on the ID4 lol

I tested the comms but i have a budget XLR mic so i didnt notice much if any difference. the monitor mix on the ID4 worked very well.
As far as gaming, havent done much of that but i fired up some BF5 BF4 and black ops cold war and no probs.

Sorry for my rambling ive only had this unit for about 2 hrs , overall i think i may be keeping the ID4 just because i dont want to get an amp. I will do some AB testing comparisons for a few more days but yea
Also just wanted to mention i wouldnt buy the ID4 just for the higher HP amp...i would look at other features and thats where i think motu shines.

My gaming setup
windows 10 pro 64
intel 8 core 10700k
Asus Strix z490i
Asus Tuf RTX 3080
32gb ddr4
Yeah the Motu monitor function and its level meters are crazy useful
 

umbral

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Of course with type C, but the measurements on this site are more informative. Also, about the bass and treble of the Motu and Audient, did you do a personal comparison? Or is it from the youtube reviewers kerodean and artmidi?

Went to two friends one had the Motu the other had the ID14, asked them to get toghether to do a comparison.
The YouTube videos are real.
Thanks. I think this pretty much nails it the ID4 feels more treble heavy the motu feels punchier at lower volumes.

So my Id4 Mk2 came in today. Headphone jack is more powerful I would say if motu is at 100% loudness, the ID4 is maybe 125% / 135% loudness somewhere in there at least using the AK702. I really it and it would be a good stop gap for these headphones before splurging on a dedicated amp and let me tell you, there is definitely abit more room left on my AK702s to justify an amp.

But i was able to distort the ID4 almost just as easy as the motu. It doesnt sound as compressed as the motu however. The bass on the motu is punchier at lower volumes and i really liked that. Its just too bad as soon as you crank up that volume, motu runs out of juice. The ID4 doesn't feel as punchier as on the motu at lower volume but it gets louder and it just brute forces its way to sounding "better" cause louder at least to me. The bumped up treble on the ID4 is a welcomed side effect for gaming for them footsteps lol so ill take it but realistically both for gaming are excellent. I was able to pinpoint footsetps just as easy on both.

As far as build quality , The ID4 feels heavier but equally well build and a matter of taste. I like the design of the motu abit more but i like the knobs of the ID4. they feel nicer cause theyre bigger i think. I dont get the whole black/gray metallic cover on the ID4 but it feels sturdy. I wish it was all black or nickel/black or something.
Software feels less intrusive on the motu and I kinda like that but i had no problem with ID software either. Love the meters on the motu , dont quite get the whole RGB going on 80s style LEDs on the ID4 but i guess they work fine.

I do love the monitor mix button on the ID4. I didnt even know what that was until i tried it. excellent for gaming. Motu has that "monitor" button which works fine its just more fun to play with those knobs on the ID4 lol

I tested the comms but i have a budget XLR mic so i didnt notice much if any difference. the monitor mix on the ID4 worked very well.
As far as gaming, havent done much of that but i fired up some BF5 BF4 and black ops cold war and no probs.

Sorry for my rambling ive only had this unit for about 2 hrs , overall i think i may be keeping the ID4 just because i dont want to get an amp. I will do some AB testing comparisons for a few more days but yea
Also just wanted to mention i wouldnt buy the ID4 just for the higher HP amp...i would look at other features and thats where i think motu shines.

My gaming setup
windows 10 pro 64
intel 8 core 10700k
Asus Strix z490i
Asus Tuf RTX 3080
32gb ddr4

You can use Motu with lower ohm such as 32 or AKG K371 and you will get 2 times the volume compared to K702 and because is has absolutely incredible tiny 0.06 @1 kHz spec you can do just that and get no distortions with low ohm headphones, and Motu has plenty of power for such a high sensitivity headphone.

While with Audient you have big 22.90 @1 kHz spec that means distortions with any headphone below 150 ohm.

Best would be to change headphones and use Motu, but if that is not the case i guess you are stuck in choosing the worse interface.

The converters and preamps and marketing material look nice on paper but as shown in reality Audient doesn't have the best "converter path" or design or circuit, you can check that by looking what happens after 500 round-trips in the Audient vs ssl2 test. Audient losses almost all quality sound. And the ID14 MK1 had blurr brown converters ! Not the AKM that are used on MKII which despite their higher specs are cheaper to buy than the old Burr Brown.

So you can get much more volume from an K371 and still have almost no distortions with Motu.
 

Hxx

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So you can get much more volume from an K371 and still have almost no distortions with Motu.

Yeah I would agree that changing headphones may be an option. the K371 wont work for me since they are closed back. None of the closed backs would work for my use case, which is why i think from a headphone monitoring perspective, motu wont be an issue since you wont be using an open back headphone. But if you want it to drive a higher impedance open back headphones or i think generally open back headphones then you are stuck.
I am not aware of any as good open back headphones as the K702s that are easier to drive to be honest. Maybe a phidelio X2hr or a sennheiser hd599 or something. I owned the x2hr and its definitely easier to drive than the k702, but not much easier though from what i remember.
But as soon as you move up to the higher end ones the HD600 , or a BD DT990, u need an amp. I havent tried a planar headphone yet but i heard despite their lower impedance, they are very hard to drive.
So i think the answer is an amp if you plan on using a higher end pair of open backs. The headphone amp on the audient may fill that stop gap since it is much better amplified but would probably still not cut it for certain open back headphones.

edit: a friend of mine will let me borrow his monoprice liquid spark amp. I will be giving that a try with the motu and with the ID4 . I rather have an all in one unit but i just dont think its possible with my use case but we shallsee
 
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AdamG

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Yeah I would agree that changing headphones may be an option. the K371 wont work for me since they are closed back. None of the closed backs would work for my use case, which is why i think from a headphone monitoring perspective, motu wont be an issue since you wont be using an open back headphone. But if you want it to drive a higher impedance open back headphones or i think generally open back headphones then you are stuck.
I am not aware of any as good open back headphones as the K702s that are easier to drive to be honest. Maybe a phidelio X2hr or a sennheiser hd599 or something. I owned the x2hr and its definitely easier to drive than the k702, but not much easier though from what i remember.
But as soon as you move up to the higher end ones the HD600 , or a BD DT990, u need an amp. I havent tried a planar headphone yet but i heard despite their lower impedance, they are very hard to drive.
So i think the answer is an amp if you plan on using a higher end pair of open backs. The headphone amp on the audient may fill that stop gap since it is much better amplified but would probably still not cut it for certain open back headphones.

edit: a friend of mine will let me borrow his monoprice liquid spark amp. I will be giving that a try with the motu and with the ID4 . I rather have an all in one unit but i just dont think its possible with my use case but we shallsee
Welcome Aboard @Hxx.
 

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Went to two friends one had the Motu the other had the ID14, asked them to get toghether to do a comparison.
The YouTube videos are real.


You can use Motu with lower ohm such as 32 or AKG K371 and you will get 2 times the volume compared to K702 and because is has absolutely incredible tiny 0.06 @1 kHz spec you can do just that and get no distortions with low ohm headphones, and Motu has plenty of power for such a high sensitivity headphone.

While with Audient you have big 22.90 @1 kHz spec that means distortions with any headphone below 150 ohm.

Best would be to change headphones and use Motu, but if that is not the case i guess you are stuck in choosing the worse interface.

The converters and preamps and marketing material look nice on paper but as shown in reality Audient doesn't have the best "converter path" or design or circuit, you can check that by looking what happens after 500 round-trips in the Audient vs ssl2 test. Audient losses almost all quality sound. And the ID14 MK1 had blurr brown converters ! Not the AKM that are used on MKII which despite their higher specs are cheaper to buy than the old Burr Brown.

So you can get much more volume from an K371 and still have almost no distortions with Motu.
Pairing two headphones, one 8 Ohms open back and another 38 Ohms closed, with Motu M4 . Both sound comfortable at around 12 o'clock. 2 o'clock is the maximum I can bear for rock.
 

phoenixsong

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Pairing two headphones, one 8 Ohms open back and another 38 Ohms closed, with Motu M4 . Both sound comfortable at around 12 o'clock. 2 o'clock is the maximum I can bear for rock.
That's really loud on the volume knob! What models of headphones might those be?
 

phoenixsong

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V**** 1 MKII and ath m50x.
Oh yes, I'd like to ask you this as well- have you encountered positions on the volume knob which seem to be especially sensitive? Like, the volume would be increasing evenly as you turn the knob, but at certain positions, even a light brush of the fingertip (the slightest increment) would make it get much louder
 

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Oh yes, I'd like to ask you this as well- have you encountered positions on the volume knob which seem to be especially sensitive? Like, the volume would be increasing evenly as you turn the knob, but at certain positions, even a light brush of the fingertip (the slightest increment) would make it get much louder
For main knob, it's faster before 9 o'clock. I think that makes sense since the sweet points are after that. I don't have setup to check headphone volume knob and only know it works for me.
 

phoenixsong

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For main knob, it's faster before 9 o'clock. I think that makes sense since the sweet points are after that. I don't have setup to check headphone volume knob and only know it works for me.
I see! For me it's the opposite- I've tested the headphone knob but not the main knob :)
 
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