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Review and Measurements of RME ADI-2 DAC

Jimster480

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Ah alright, I thought that maybe this store was in sweetwater which is here in florida lol
 

Dro

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I'll likely get mine next week. Also got myself a miniDSP for some headphone measurements so I can make the most of the PEQ.
 

DonH56

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I've been using Sweetwater Sound for decades now...

As said above, separating THD from noise is easy in an FFT if the noise floor is significantly lower than the HD spurs. Unfortunately that is usually only true for the lower harmonics, BUT noise averaging is routinely used in spectral analysis to provide better HD resolution. There are other schemes, including curve-fitting, and looking at the noise bins around the HD spurs to estimate the noise within the HD bin and rss'ing it out, etc.
 

SIY

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Don, once a harmonic is several dB below the predominant harmonics, it basically disappears in the totaling to get THD. So usually, you only have to consider the one or two predominant ones, unless you really care about the difference between 0.00200 and 0.00201% (which will be well within your error bars in any case). For example, let's say you have a system with 0.01% second, 0.005% third, and 0.001% fourth at 1V out (to make the math easy). THD will be the RMS sum of the harmonics divided by the input voltage (that's why I chose 1V!). In this case, sqrt(0.010V^2 + 0.005V^2 + 0.001V^2) = 0.011%. So if we ONLY counted the second and neglected the third, we're pretty damn close; even a harmonic 6 dB down from the predominant one barely moves the needle. If we count second and third, then neglected 4th, we'd have sqrt(0.01V^2 + 0.005V^2) = 0.011% (in other words, the contribution of that 4th is entirely negligible).

Like I said, this is a trivial thing to do with instrumentation that was exotic in 1979 but totally commonplace now.
 

DonH56

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Don, once a harmonic is several dB below the predominant harmonics, it basically disappears in the totaling to get THD. So usually, you only have to consider the one or two predominant ones, unless you really care about the difference between 0.00200 and 0.00201% (which will be well within your error bars in any case). For example, let's say you have a system with 0.01% second, 0.005% third, and 0.001% fourth at 1V out (to make the math easy). THD will be the RMS sum of the harmonics divided by the input voltage (that's why I chose 1V!). In this case, sqrt(0.010V^2 + 0.005V^2 + 0.001V^2) = 0.011%. So if we ONLY counted the second and neglected the third, we're pretty damn close; even a harmonic 6 dB down from the predominant one barely moves the needle. If we count second and third, then neglected 4th, we'd have sqrt(0.01V^2 + 0.005V^2) = 0.011% (in other words, the contribution of that 4th is entirely negligible).

Like I said, this is a trivial thing to do with instrumentation that was exotic in 1979 but totally commonplace now.

Thanks, I can only relate my experience, and sometimes higher harmonics are more significant than others but often are in or near the noise floor. As for the math, I can do that, and agree with your comments, just wasn't sure it mattered here. I tend to think in dBc or dBFS instead of percentages; 0.001% is -100 dB. And for the applications I have sometimes designed for (not audio) we did have to separate in-band and in-bin noise from distortion.

My default is to refer folk to IEEE STD-1241.
 

Sythrix

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Did not see this posted yet, but I found it pretty interesting:

https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=26999

This is in reply to the headphone-induced distortion discussion on page 5. I won't claim to understand most of this, but it looks like they don't feel that this is an issue.

I don't really understand what he's talking about either. However, at least partly he seems to be concerned with the idea that this would somehow be construed as the performance of the amp, which isn't at all what I inferred from the discussion we had.

Also, he talks about the output impedance being one of the reasons for this effect, but the HPA2 has a 0.11 ohm output impedance (DAC3 specs as reference) versus the 0.1 on the ADI-2 DAC, so it's not as though there's any great difference between them.

If anyone is able to sufficiently simplify his whole argument for me and anyone else who's having trouble following along, we would appreciate it.
 
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amirm

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If anyone is able to sufficiently simplify his whole argument for me and anyone else who's having trouble following along, we would appreciate it.
Stand by. :) I am going to run some additional tests today and will be back with more.
 

SIY

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Tossing fuel on the fire... I no longer have the RME in house but hope that my editor can convince Matthias to loan me the unit again. In the meantime, his response was interesting, but I had some trouble understanding it since the measurement is taken across the load, i.e., after the source impedance.

So, I fired up the AP and used the APx1701 transducer interface to drive a set of (nominally) 32R headphones at three different voltage levels, the highest being 630 mV, which I will attest was far louder than I'd be able to stand if I were wearing them- it was moderately loud a meter away. The source impedance (not inclusing the cables) was 0.1 ohm, about the same as the RME. The three curves should be self-explanatory. Note that the control, a 32 ohm resistive load at 630 mV, overlays the 630 mV headphone curve within the repeatability of the measurement. I'm not seeing the bass distortion.
 

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RayDunzl

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350ms sweep doesn't give much time to the bass frequencies does it?

(I am permitted to be easily confused about such things, so, fix me up)
 
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SIY

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350 ms corresponds to about 3 Hz. So starting the sweep at 20 Hz presents no difficulties, though the frequency resolution is reduced to 3 Hz as well (which would not cover up the sort of rise in Amir's data). If you want to do some reading on the test signal, google "Farina" and "log chirp." It's really pretty interesting.
 

DonH56

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Sorry for your loss and I hope your wife is doing ok.

Thank you, sorry to divert the thread. Lost six coworkers/friends/family in under two weeks, been a little rough.
 

Rod

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Its going to take some time to get used to the tube not being in there. The RME dac sounds very neutral to me so I was using loudness and bass boost on it. It does sound very good, but the xduoo amp section has more watts. The distortion levels in the xduoo are higher and I can hear that also. I figure I will be switching back to the RME soon enough after it breaks in. Waiting for the massdrop/THXAAA.
rsz_rme.jpg
 
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